Yes, if anything it was ASIB (or perhaps my thoughts about it after viewing) that swung me the other way!  Partly because of the choice to do it like that.   The canon story was much more ambiguous - Holmes is clearly fascinating by Irene and admires her, but he's outwitted by her, rather than losing the game through falling for her, I think.   There was a clear choice to go in that direction. It wasn't something that was necessary to follow canon. 

For all we've argued about sexuality being fluid and so on, a choice was made to show Sherlock as attracted to a woman, and only a woman. 

I tend to think that this was more Stephen's choice than Mark's, partly because ASIB is Stephen's episode.  Obviously it was something they agreed on, but in interviews I feel he's more invested in it. 

besleybean wrote:

@ ewige.See I find that odd, particularly when Benedict seems fairly clear that Sherlock and Irene s----d in Karachi!

Now I'm dying to know what you censored out!

Liberty wrote:

Yes, if anything it was ASIB (or perhaps my thoughts about it after viewing) that swung me the other way!  Partly because of the choice to do it like that.   The canon story was much more ambiguous - Holmes is clearly fascinating by Irene and admires her, but he's outwitted by her, rather than losing the game through falling for her, I think.   There was a clear choice to go in that direction. It wasn't something that was necessary to follow canon. 

But Sherlock almost lost the game not because of falling for Irene but because she was smart enough to "make him dance".
This ep made Sherlock look suddenly more human than I dared hope so it swung me from "cheap gay jokes" to "wait a mo, what exactly is happening here?"
 

Last edited by ewige (May 25, 2017 8:12 pm)

Passionately playing chess. Or Operation

Yeah, he's such a gentleman :D

I thought you wouldn't censor anything about sex, would you? It's not like the F word, after all.

Anyway, since we are talking about unconsummated (unshown, unspoken) romance being the most intriguing one... I think that a night of passion woulf be too pedestrian for Sherlock and Irene both and they'd lose interest in each other afterwards. Her game was about seducing him, wasn't it?

I think the suggestion was always that Sherlock just tried it once, then 'just texted'.
I am certain that Eurus deduces Sherlock has had sex and I am fairly certain that would be with Irene.

Yes, neither of them really want the other dead, even when they're enemies.  A bit like the Doctor and Missy in Doctor Who (or perhaps not a lot like them, but it's currently airing, so it's on my mind). 

I agree that Benedict plays Sherlock as attracted to Irene.  I think that's clear in interviews.  (I also think it's clear on screen, but I know not everybody sees it!).   And yes, my head canon was always that they didn't have sex, but S4 hints that they did. 

I'm kind of glad that they stuck with Irene as the single, never-to-be love interest throughout.  Sherlock's a soppy old monogamous romantic at heart, I think.

If I were Irene (and I almost am! Russian names, ha!), I'd never have really slept with Sherlock because that would diminish the fun. It's the chase and the evasion that's interesting in their case, don't you think?

In case with Sherlock and John (to come back on topic), a physical relationship would merely uncover a different aspect of their loving relationship.

Vhanja wrote:

I am so divided in this. In my head canon, it's Johnlock beyond anything.

But what I see on screen, and what I love to see on screen, is an unwanted and perhaps a bit scary, physical attraction from Sherlock to Irene. She hits him in the one spot where he doesn't have any confidence - sexuality.

I am dead sure he is attracted to her intellect, not her gender.

Schmiezi wrote:

I am dead sure he is attracted to her intellect, not her gender.

But that's true of anyone, I think.    Men are my "preferred" sex, but I'm not attracted to all men, and certainly not attracted to people just because they are male.   There has to be something else there!  And I'm sure I'm not alone in being attracted to intellect amongst other non-gender-specific qualities!

Now I've always said Sherlock is more ambiguous than John, because showing an attraction to one woman allows for a whole range of possibilities (generally asexual person whose interest is sparked by a particular person, gay man who has a connection with a single woman, bisexual, etc.).  However, in terms of the story-telling, it's in my mind that they did show an attraction to one woman, and they have been consistent with that throughout the show.  (Well, they did suggest an attraction to another woman in TAB, but throughout, Irene has been the representation of sex/romance for Sherlock).

I don't think it matters what Sherlock's sexual orientation is beyond the fact that I think it makes the friendship story more straightforward if he's not particularly attracted to men - and so not attracted to John in that way.   I remember Steven's comment about him not choosing to live with somebody he was attracted to.   He keeps Irene very much at more than arm's length, but he's not afraid of being close to John at all. 

(Edited to add the quote I'm replying to!  I'm a bit slow with my replies and it ends up looking as if I'm responding to something else!)

Last edited by Liberty (May 26, 2017 7:34 am)