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May 17, 2017 4:03 pm  #7881


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

She certainly appears in mine!


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May 17, 2017 5:04 pm  #7882


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean wrote:

She certainly appears in mine!

You are having your own canon? Isn't that like the opposite of "canon"? Or did I get the word wrong?


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I still believe that love conquers all!

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"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 17, 2017 5:06 pm  #7883


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

No, I was unclear.
I meant she's in my copy of the Canon.


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May 17, 2017 5:15 pm  #7884


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Ah thanks. But I think you'very got Susi's and my comments wrong. We meant (half jokingly) that BBC Mary is as inconsistent as canon Mary and therefore, somehow, BBC Mary fits canon even though she is that smart-alec sweet super heroine good wife mingle-mangle.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 17, 2017 5:15 pm  #7885


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I'm happy with both.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 17, 2017 5:35 pm  #7886


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Let's continue this over at the Mary thread. One moment please...


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 18, 2017 10:32 am  #7887


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 18, 2017 2:13 pm  #7888


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

SusiGo wrote:

A lovely anecdote about Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce:

http://johntheantivirus.tumblr.com/post/160798729428/rathbone-and-bruce-aiming-for-johnlock-back-in-the

LOL! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

May 18, 2017 4:11 pm  #7889


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

SusiGo wrote:

A lovely anecdote about Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce:

http://johntheantivirus.tumblr.com/post/160798729428/rathbone-and-bruce-aiming-for-johnlock-back-in-the

A lovely story, well-told!


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

May 18, 2017 6:44 pm  #7890


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Good for them!  I wish they'd kept that in!  Impossible in those days, though.

Possibly interesting that none of them thought ACD would have approved (although they could have got that wrong, of course - even his son!).  But also kind of funny that Denis seemed more critical of the props than of the romance!

 

May 18, 2017 6:46 pm  #7891


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

ACD thought gay people were sick.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 18, 2017 7:13 pm  #7892


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I suppose, to be fair to him, he was a doctor and so was more likely to take a medical view.  It was a different time.

 

May 18, 2017 7:13 pm  #7893


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Which was a big progress compared to people thinking they were criminals. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 18, 2017 7:14 pm  #7894


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I agree.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 23, 2017 10:53 am  #7895


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't know if you guys have wathed Twin Peaks. (One of the best TV shows ever aired, in my opinion). It's in the wind again due to season 3 being out now, 25 years after season 2 ended (beat that, Moftiss!)

In that regards, I'm watching a fan channel on YouTube, who is doing character analysis of a lot of the major characters in the show. For those not familiar, the show is - to simplify it enormously - about the investigation of the murder of high-school prom queen Laura Palmer. FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper arrives in Twin Peaks and works together with Sheriff Truman to solve the mystery - amongst other things.

The relationship between Cooper and Truman is quite similar to the traditional Holmes and Watson relationship in many ways. Cooper is the more experienced and intelligent of the two, being somewhat eccentric with original ideas on how to solve crimes. (One of the writers have said that Sherlock Holmes was one of the inspirations for the character). However, in contrast to Sherlock, Cooper is kind, friendly, tolerant and patient - a very easy-to-like character.

Sheriff Truman is the more down-to-earth, practical of the two. Somewhat baffled by Cooper's eccentries, but more than willing to follow and help him out. The similariy between their relationship and the Holmes/Watson is even referenced in the series - Truman saying that he "feels almost like Watson".

In the character analysis video I'm watching now, the guy narrating says that he usually dislikes fan shipping, but that he himself sees a possibility of romantic feelings between the two. Which baffled me, because I don't see it at all. (Although while rewatching the show the last month, the thought crossed my mind that I am sure there are tons of Cooper/Truman fanfics, but that's just because that's how fandom works).

I am not even sure why I am writing this post or what my point is. It was just a bit interesting to be on the other side of the table - in BBC Sherlock I can easily see that their relationship can be interpreted two ways. In Twin Peaks, I see nothing but friendship. I am curious as to why the narrator of the video drew that conclusion, what he based it on.

Is it more or less founded than Johnlock? Does is mostly say something about the show and the writers, or about the viewers? Are we unable to see close friendship on TV without shipping it?

I don't know, it just raised a lot of interesting thoughts and questions in my mind. How subjective are these interpretations? What one person sees so clearly, other people don't see at all. 

Last edited by Vhanja (May 23, 2017 10:53 am)


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May 23, 2017 11:28 am  #7896


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well, I think if you read through this thread again, you will find many detailed posts or links to posts that work with screenshots and quotes from the dcript to show where they see Johnlock.

Even though you can still say that it depends on your point of view, I think that there are enough works that are based on material you can follow. You don't have to rely on your feelings.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

May 23, 2017 12:04 pm  #7897


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Showing my age, but I loved Twin Peaks all those years ago, and would refuse any social engagements when it aired!   I was already a David Lynch fan at the time, so was so excited about it.   I'm just as excited about the new one, hearing the music again.  Anyway, OT, sorry. 

But yes, I don't know what it is, but we've talked before about romance being sold to us as the ultimate, the "right" ending, etc.  So where a show/film/book doesn't have a central romance, but a friendship, there seems to be a tendency to fix it and put one in there. 

I don't know if it's more so for same sex pairings because we had so many years of their romances being underground, coded and hinted at.  So there's a tendency to continue that and see the coding and hints in modern shows too.   For instance, in Star Trek, we're shown what's clearly a friendship, but there was no way that was ever going to be shown as an overt romance ... and because it couldn't be shown, I think fans are free to see it as implied, or even intended, possibly.   But in Sherlock, we know that it could be shown, but the makers chose not to, so it really is "just" a friendship.  The way I see it, anyway. 

As for seeing it - it feels a bit like those optical illusions that can be seen both ways.  I feel I can squint and see both options, but I tend to default to one or the other.   (I'm talking in general, not Sherlock).  For instance, there's a particular thing that I wrote some fanfic for and spent a long time analysing it and looking for (imagined) subtext, and I always think of that as a pairing now, even though I know it was never intended! 

 

May 23, 2017 1:04 pm  #7898


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I know where they see Johnlock. But just as some so clearly see it in those moments/scenes, other people do not see it at all. And some, like me, can see both sides, just like Liberty.

But when I heard that Twin Peaks comment, I was the one who never saw it, never even thought about it. So regarding that, I was on the "nope, can't see it"-fence, while the video narrator was on the "Yup, I think it could be there"-side. 

Just the same as with Johnlock. We watch the same show, the same scenes, yet our interpretation of them can be very different. 

I just think it's an interesting concept. And it strengthens my thought that a person's interpretation can often be quite subjective and depending more on the background, interests, knowledge and filter of the viewer than necessarily what's in the show itself.


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Team Hudders!
 
 

May 23, 2017 1:10 pm  #7899


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Vhanja wrote:

It's in the wind again due to season 3 being out now, 25 years after season 2 ended (beat that, Moftiss!)

*strangled yelp*
Don't encourage them!


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"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

May 23, 2017 2:18 pm  #7900


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Hahaha! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

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