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January 5, 2017 9:47 pm  #141


Re: Mary's death and final message

I don't think Mary could accurately predict when her past would catch up with her or whether she could avoid paying for it with her life.  She possibly never factored in taking a bullet for Sherlock.


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January 5, 2017 11:09 pm  #142


Re: Mary's death and final message

At the beginning Sherlock says that Moriarty's "miss me?" was made before his death and broadcast after it. 

Mary's DVD with label "miss me?" was created before her death but delivered after it. 

Does it mean that there is some  connection in them? 

It seems to be too similar for only random coincidence. 

Last edited by Preceja (January 5, 2017 11:09 pm)

 

January 6, 2017 7:02 am  #143


Re: Mary's death and final message

Or else Mary copied Jim's idea.
I used to always wonder if Sherlock copied Irene's fake death.


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January 6, 2017 7:34 am  #144


Re: Mary's death and final message

Didn't she say she just did it to get Sherlock's full attention?


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January 6, 2017 7:37 am  #145


Re: Mary's death and final message

This is true.
Which unfortunately doesn't help us know who made the attention-seeking Moriarty video.
Though Sherlock does seem to think it was Jim himself and maybe it was.


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January 6, 2017 8:28 am  #146


Re: Mary's death and final message

Yes, there's definitely a connection, and the first case (the pre-recorded Skype call) sets that up, I think.   On first viewing, I was feeling there was a lot of Mary/Moriarty links (and there were hints of that in TAB too), but now I'm not so sure.  It's true that she does say that she did it like that, with the Miss Me title, to get Sherlock's attention (maybe it would just have been chucked in the bin otherwise!)

So I think it could mean
(a) Mary is connected to Moriarty (twin/minion/carrying on his work after his death, etc.)
(b) Mary engineered the Moriarty return video, to save Sherlock at the end of HLV or
(c) It's just as we see it - Mary uses the Moriarty reference because she knows that's what Sherlock is interested in.  We're just seeing repeating themes.

I'm leaning towards c at the moment, but haven't ruled the others out. For instance, Sherlock is convinced that he will know when the Moriarty game starts, and he is very sure of it when he comes across the first bust at the Wellsborough house.   He looks for evidence that it might be linked to Moriarty and finds the Borgia pearl case - that's why he's convinced, with very scant evidence, that he's going to find a pearl at the Sanderson house.  The fact that he finds AGRA instead, doesn't necessarily rule out that he was right about this being Moriarty's game.  (I think it's unlikely because I don't see Moriarty planning years ago for Ajay to be in a pottery and hide the AGRA stick there ... but instinctively Sherlock could be right about something).   Or he could be wrong, as he sometimes is.

     Thread Starter
 

January 6, 2017 12:56 pm  #147


Re: Mary's death and final message

it's never twins http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

but I am with you, for the moment c seems the most likely to me. I also think that he might have been just plain wrong about Moriaty's involvement in this one. After all he made the capital mistake of theorizing before he had all the data...


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January 6, 2017 9:28 pm  #148


Re: Mary's death and final message

So, I'm new here and have to read everything because the analyses of this ep are interesting. My first thought when Mary threw herself in front of Sherlock was, really, why would a woman with a child to raise even do such a thing?  That bugs me, and it's not as if she's in love with Sherlock. Risking your life for someone else is a huge deal. I have just rewatched and was wondering if anyone thought this little thing was deliberate in the case of stuff not seeming what it looks like: when Sherlock and Norbury are talking, at one point Mary kind of rushes toward Norbury and Sherlock stops her. Mary retreats, and ends up on the left side of Sherlock, when she had previously been on his right. I only noticed because when she first entered the room, I realized she had to switch sides at some point.. I am thinking the director would have told her to back up and go to Sherlock's other side, when I think more naturally she would have just back-stepped and ended up where she was, on his right. Just musing. 

 

January 6, 2017 10:13 pm  #149


Re: Mary's death and final message

I think you answered your own question. For the shot to look balanced, Mary had to move to Sherlock's other side, to make some space for Mycroft, Lestrade and the police officers. 


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We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    http://i.picasion.com/av/83/2rrf.jpg
 

January 6, 2017 10:20 pm  #150


Re: Mary's death and final message

Good point.

 

January 9, 2017 9:28 am  #151


Re: Mary's death and final message

So thankfully, this was resolved too!  We were just missing the crucial part of the video.  (Although I still feel it was an almost-cliffhanger at the end, with its deliberately ambiguous meaning). 

     Thread Starter
 

January 9, 2017 9:31 am  #152


Re: Mary's death and final message

Can we please talk about the fact that Sherlock would have died if John had not seen the DVD? Telling Sherlock to bring himself into deadly danger to save John? What a crazy plan was this?
 


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January 9, 2017 9:57 am  #153


Re: Mary's death and final message

It worked!  And it's not Mary's fault how Sherlock executed it - I think he should have left more of a clue for John about what was happening, and that he had too much faith in John materialising at the right point.   (He had switched the bags, but it did look as if he was going to allow himself to be suffocated).

     Thread Starter
 

January 9, 2017 11:49 am  #154


Re: Mary's death and final message

Well, according to the episode, Sherlock can predict John's actions very accurately. There is still a little bit of that self assurance of always getting it right there, thankfully, this time is was completely justified. 

I do not think we ever had that many issues closed. I am glad how it worked out. It showed that both Mary and Sherlock know John through and through and eventually, both are only interested in keeping him safe. 


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We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    http://i.picasion.com/av/83/2rrf.jpg
 

January 9, 2017 12:26 pm  #155


Re: Mary's death and final message

Mary's death scene, and the resulting reactions from Sherlock and John are some of the worst played moments in this series I've ever seen. We've been shown twice now how hard it is to move out of the way of a bullet (Scandel and HLV) where there was a microsecond to react, and even then Sherlock with 'vatican cameos' givens John over a second to react before he even opens the vault. And in HLV, Sherlock blinks after being shot. The whole Mary jumping and falling thing was so inconsistent with the rest of the series, from character motivation to physics, it totally feels unresolved and there's no way I can buy what I have been fed in TLD. I hope there's more to it than this, but I fear there isn't. 

 

January 9, 2017 1:35 pm  #156


Re: Mary's death and final message

Lola Red wrote:

Well, according to the episode, Sherlock can predict John's actions very accurately. There is still a little bit of that self assurance of always getting it right there, thankfully, this time is was completely justified. 

I do not think we ever had that many issues closed. I am glad how it worked out. It showed that both Mary and Sherlock know John through and through and eventually, both are only interested in keeping him safe. 

Sherlock mentioned he had back-up plans (even tho he forgot what they were). So maybe he wouldn't have died even without John - altho it certainly didn't look so!


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