Why would Mycroft care about John considering TRF. Plus it took ages for Mary to turn up after that .

I can think of a couple of reasons why Mycroft might care about John.  There's a possibility John could work out that Sherlock's alive (he did seem to have some doubt) and that he is being watched for signs - not that he has much information to give, but Mycroft might want to know where he's at.  And also, John was clearly good for Sherlock - especially with the TAB hints of serious drug issues and so on - Mycroft tends to use John to protect Sherlock and maybe wants him kept safe for when Sherlock returns.   Again, just speculating - I have no idea, and it does sound a bit tenuous.  I think the main point of Mary working for Mycroft would be as a secret agent (he has agents working for him), either in the past or currently.   It does seem kind of likely that Mycroft knew about Mary.   I know we've mentioned Mycroft wanting to find out who shot Sherlock, but he'd also surely have tried to find out who'd been about to kill Magnussen - if he already knew these things, it explains him not pursuing it.   And maybe a bit of a stretch, but if Mary's work was current, she could have been used by Mycroft to get to Magnussen - which backfired.

As Mary worked for the CIA, and went freelance, maybe it isn't such a huge leap for Sherlock to imagine her working for MI5/6 at some point, whether she did or not. 

Liberty wrote:

Nakahara, I think it's more gut feeling for John - I think those things affect him and he responds to those things according to his feelings at the time.   As I say, he might have acted quite differently if he'd actually come across Mary pointing the gun at Sherlock, or seen her standing over his bleeding body.   But by the time Sherlock exposes her, he's not actually worrying about Sherlock, and is more angry at the deception. 

But John was the one who discovered Sherlock half-dead on the floor. He also witnessed how Mary pulled the gun out on him, thinking that he is Sherlock. I can´t believe these things did not affect him in such a way that he would not feel strongly about them, even if he didn´t actually saw Mary standing over Sherlock´s body. The knowledge of what she has done should be enough for him....
 

Well, now the picture I'm getting in my head of John's mindset is -- weirdly self-centered, and avoidant to the point of folly. If it's not directly affecting him--or in front of him in such a way that he can't avoid it, he'll pretend it didn't happen. Or, it isn't that important. I mean, Sherlock died on the table! Then, he almost died again. Yet, John not only (to all appearances) forgives Mary for it, but refuses to learn anything more about who it was that he married. On purpose!

This is a John who has shut himself off from facts, in order to preserve a comfortable and acceptable existence-- straight guy with wife and kid in the suburbs.

And this John is wildly at odds with the John H. Watson we saw in season one and two.

Often I think we make all sorts of excuses for John, and why he stays with Mary, not getting that some of those reasons we conjure up for him make him a Not Very Good person. It makes him look worse, not more loving, not more sympathetic.

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (May 2, 2016 9:18 pm)

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

nakahara wrote:

Liberty wrote:

Nakahara, I think it's more gut feeling for John - I think those things affect him and he responds to those things according to his feelings at the time.   As I say, he might have acted quite differently if he'd actually come across Mary pointing the gun at Sherlock, or seen her standing over his bleeding body.   But by the time Sherlock exposes her, he's not actually worrying about Sherlock, and is more angry at the deception. 

But John was the one who discovered Sherlock half-dead on the floor. He also witnessed how Mary pulled the gun out on him, thinking that he is Sherlock. I can´t believe these things did not affect him in such a way that he would not feel strongly about them, even if he didn´t actually saw Mary standing over Sherlock´s body. The knowledge of what she has done should be enough for him....
 

 
Apparently not, because he stays with Mary.

Not if you believe the Christmas "forgiveness" was not genuine.  This is still just as much a possibility as it being real.
 

Yes it is and the creators really need to resolve it early in S4.

Hey! People are agreeing! Time for a round of cupcakes and Mimosas!

Well of course, I don't see anything to be resolved.
They are reconciled, as far a I am concerned.

SPOILER ALERT

And  tarmac, plane and various locations around London seem to confirm this for me.

In my opinion, his forgiveness was genuine. John is very poor at lying (that´s why he was not informed about Sherlock´s plans in TRF) and I can´t imagine him living with a woman he secretly hates for months without her noticing anything....

The fact remains-- he's in a relationship with Mary-- and it's apparently a loving one. They're holding hands as Sherlock flies off to his death! So, in s4-- if one of Mary's chickens come home to roost, and John finds out something that makes him end the marriage-- it's not actually about Sherlock at all-- it's about how Mary has affected John. He chose Mary, not Sherlock. I'm going to go cry into my pillows, now. :-(