Ah-chie wrote:

I just found this thread (a big thank you to Susi!) and have yet to go through all the posts but wanted to say that I think what attracts me most to BBC Sherlock is the dynamic of friendship that is shown between John and Sherlock.  More than the cases it is the basis for everything in the show to me.  It was also what attracted me to the original stories so long ago (when I was about 10 years of age).  

I have to read through all the discussions on this thread and then I will be back with some contributions of my own.

But I just had to say how thrilled I am to have a place to gush about their wonderful enduring relationship!

-Val

I am very happy about the thread, too!
What attracted me to the original stories was the affectionate and admiring tone in which Watson talks about Holmes and their adventures, and the cosy domestic scenes in between the chases and deductions.. That´s probably what I like best about Sherlock, too - besides Benedict, that is ;P.
I also love how Steven Moffat talks about their friendship and the bond they share..
http://skulls-and-tea.tumblr.com/post/108024107276/moffat-in-the-whole-60-story-canon-arthur-conan
 

@nakahara - I'm not sure I see really any direct correlation between saying someone's name a certain number of times and that being an indicator of a true and close friendship (I usually say someone's name a lot when I think I will have a hard time remembering who they are) but it is an interesting graph.  It could just show more that they have a lot of scenes together in certain particular plots (and context would be paramount before drawing any concluding links, I think).  That is interesting though and could do with a more thorough examination to prove that there is a correlation at all. Thanks for posting it. 

@ Zatoichi - when I was first picked up The Boy's Complete Collection of Sherlock Holmes Stories (I admit the part about it being for "boys" made me think, "I'm a girl... why can't I read it??") the adventurous crime solving was the main attraction.  I wanted to see if I could figure things out before (or at least at the same time as) Holmes did.  But it wasn't long that the real page turning attraction for me was the bond between Holmes and Watson and how it played out, embedded in those adventures. 

For the BBC Sherlock the initial attraction was mainly about seeing another stellar performance of BC (I had already seen him in Star Trek, The Fifth Estate, 12 Years a Slave, Amazing Grace, Attonement and August: Osage County).  That, and my Holmesian history. 

But immediately after about half way through the first episode I found myself absolutely fascinated with their developing friendship.  I really felt Cumberbatch captured the Holmes of my childhood imagination more than any reincarnation I had seen before on film or on TV.  And ditto for Freeman's Watson. The acting chemistry between Cumberbatch and Freeman was almost intoxicatingly good.  

And it has just grown stronger with every episode for me.  They are like the right and left hand of one unit.  Tremendous.  I am so excited to watch more as this relationship develops in so many different ways. 

And to me all the subtext and dialogue reinforces the bond between these two fictional characters as one of the deepest friendships going.  It is the driving force in the show.  I think that's why I love the 3rd series so much. 

-Val


 

Last edited by Ah-chie (February 7, 2015 12:17 am)

I was surprised that people saw the quote from Benedict as being a revelation that Sherlock was gay (Benedict seems to have claimed that he isn't, and it would be an odd way to reveal the information).    But it's good to have it confirmed anyway.  I suppose this goes along with Mark Gatiss's "it's not going to happen".   The love between John and Sherlock isn't sexual. 

I do think the relationship looks very different when you see it as a developing friendship (even a very unique, powerfui, romantic one), rather than a developing conventional romantic/sexual relationship.    In some ways, it's more powerful and striking because they don't have that motivator of sexual love (which can be quite overwhelming).

I'd say he realizes he has friends sometime before the goldfish/Operation conversation with Mycroft in TEH--but obviously doesn't realize that John (and if not John, then no one else either) could consider HIM their best friend. I'd guess that it never, ever occurred to him that someone could see him in that light--which is why he thought John wouldn't grieve for him the way he did.

I do think he realizes Molly is his friend in TRF, because he trusts her, and continues to trust her the whole time he is "dead," and he certainly tries to act as a friend to her in TEH, not only in inviting her along on his cases and in thanking her, but also in not saying anything about her fiance at the end of the episode. 

I'd say that he realizes that Lestrade could be classified as a friend when he realizes that Moriarty sees friendship in that relationship, if not earlier. (I just can't believe he doesn't remember Lestrade's first name, because it IS relevant to his work--I think Sherlock thinks it's funny to pretend not to remember, and he'd only play like that with someone he's classified as "friend," even if only subconsciously. So sometime between Baskerville and TRF.) And I'm POSITIVE that he realizes Lestrade considers him a friend when Lestrade is the only person who greets him on his return from the "dead" with a bear hug.

All of which would mean that Sherlock wouldn't have been conscious of having friends until after Baskerville, so I think he was telling John the truth when he said he only had one friend. But I also think that that conversation made Sherlock start thinking about friendships, and slowly start realizing there were other people that could fit that category. I mean, he was openly affectionate with Mrs. Hudson even in ASiP, but I don't think he thought of her as a friend until he was given a shove into thinking about friendship.

One of the reasons why Season 3 is my favourite is perhaps because the question of friendship for Sherlock is examined so closely.  And since it is my belief that the whole basis for the show rests on the friendship aspect then that season really draws the entire theme of the programme close to me as a viewer.

I really like what you have said REReader about Sherlock's realisation of friendship that surrounds him is played out throughout the season - not only his greatest and closest friendship with John, but also his "lesser" (for want of a better word, but not meaning less as a derogatory remark at all) friendships in Lestrade, Molly and even Mrs. Hudson (who to me seems more like a mother figure, so it is more of a familial connection than a chosen friendship of equals).  

His realisation of his various friendships is lovely to see develop throughout Season 3 - first, with it dawning on him that with John's anger is his equal depth of feeling of loss and grief when Sherlock "died".   It is a real eye-opener to him and by the time John's wedding rolls around we see he is able to fully comprehend the true power and bond that their friendship has.   That's why he can take the radical step and shoot Magnussen in HLV.  He wants to protect Mary and John.  He is willing to give up his freedom and possibly his life for that friendship and to see John happy and safe.  

The other friendships are true and heartfelt, but just not to the extreme that his friendship with John is articulated in the show.  I don't think that Sherlock is willing to destroy himself for the sake of anyone else.  But he does like them and feels for them in many regards.  Just not to the extent that he does towards John.

It will be interesting to see what extent that paramount friendship (John/Sherlock) is tested in Season 4.  Consequences... that's what Moffat said is the keyword for the next season.  That really does pique my interest for sure.

PS: I just read NatureNoHumansNo's remarks and I also think that before Sherlock met John his relationships were mainly one-sided (except perhaps with Mycroft but that is familial again so it is kind of a different relationship with an extremely long history).

I don't know if ACD never loved Sherlock (we do know he grew to not like him really) but certainly he created someone who wasn't easy to love.  But I think ACD knew that it was precisely because of Holmes' non-affectionate nature that his readers would be so drawn to him (through the filter of John Watson).  Because, like Watson, we know that under all that cold intellect is someone who is capable of an abiding friendship that would cause Holmes to risk his life for the sake of bond.  So the exterior may be not very affectionate, but the heart is pure in its fondness (for Holmes and the man who created him thus).

-Val
 

Another point about TRF - Sherlock guesses that Moriarty guesses his friends are very important to him.   I suppose Sherlock sees it through Moriarty's eyes as well.  He's somebody who would sacrifice himself for his friends (interesting that Moriarty doesn't choose family).  

There's also his regret at Janine's "we could have been friends".  I think he truly values friendship, even though he doesn't usually seek it out and is rather hard to befriend. 

He does seek out the friendship with Watson, though.   He even calls him a friend in S1 - it seems as if John's purpose was never just to share the rent.

Oh, maybe before they'd met, Sherlock was just looking for help with the rent.  But once they'd met it moved in incredibly quickly.   Sherlock was obviously ready for a friend (even if he wasn't conscious of it himself), and John was obviously just the right person.   Sherlock does actively recruit him, and they're more than just flatmates almost from the very beginning.  And yes, aren't we glad that John makes that decision!    I love that scene - when they both just "get" each other, in a way that I don't think they've had with other people. 

Last edited by Liberty (April 1, 2015 6:37 pm)

I mean Sherlock involving John in his work (which he's "married to", so it's a hugely important thing in his life - THE important thing) as soon as he moves in.  It's an odd thing to do with somebody who you've only recently met and who is just there to share the rent.  So actively recruiting him as a friend/partner, rather than actively recruiting him as a flatmate. 

I agree Yitzock that when faced with the prospect of working with Anderson, Sherlock considered John as an alternative that just might be an acceptable choice.  I don't think when he turned back to ask John to go with him he was consciously thinking of him as a potential friend - he was aware (through his skill of observing him) that he was qualified to assist him in the task and probably thought that the unknown John was better than the known Anderson as a helpmate for the evening. 

Goodness, after he got John's help he didn't even stick around to make sure he got home (and John was apparently unfamiliar with the city as well) and just ran off to hunt for the pink case, abandoning John without a ride.  Not someone who was establishing a friendship would do, I would think.

That's the beauty of the show I think - we see throughout this episode how absolutely difficult Sherlock would be as a "friend" and yet we know that they will become best friends despite it.  This knowledge lends a lot to the humour of the show - and to its endearing quality.  All those difficulties actually give me a warm feeling inside because I know that underneath it all they both need each other and are yearning for companionship in their own unique ways.

-Val

Last edited by Ah-chie (May 15, 2015 4:10 pm)

Just came across a couple of essays about Holmes and Watson's friendship -

First up this one...

http://sherlockcares.com/holmes-watson-adventure-iconic-relationship/

The BBC Sherlock show is mentioned quite a lot (but also there are plenty of references to ACD canon and other versions of Sherlock).

I like way that the author takes a look at the different forms of Aristotle's definition of friendship as it applies to the Sherlock stories.  And I do find myself agreement with the writer of this article that Sherlock and Watson's friendship is an excellent example of a "complete or perfect friendship". 

Next I found this one...

http://vc.bridgew.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1015&context=honors_proj

Although it was written before the last series of programmes I think the basic theme of their friendship still applies...

Since they were first published in 1887, the Sherlock Holmes stories have sparked a number of adaptations, yet what is most fascinating about the BBC’s adaptation with Sherlock is its integration of literary criticism and masculine friendship... Sherlock Holmes and John Watson share an interdependent homosocial bond, while still maintaining their masculine identities. They are productive in society, mostly because they have each other... There are many ways one can study Sherlock Holmes and its array of adaptations. However, the friendship between Holmes and Watson proves to be the crux of the stories, especially when using the BBC Sherlock. These stories, and Sherlock, argue a case for the role of professional male friendship as a deterrent to both social and criminal degeneracy. This friendship offers fans a sense of consistency in an uncertain world.

Lots of food for thought of fans who view Sherlock as a true expression of the greatest friendship in fiction!

-Val