BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

**Posted by SusiGo** June 5, 2014 9:13 am

I agree. To make us swallow the whole "addicted to a certain lifestyle" and having chosen her because of the danger she provided would be terrible.

**Posted by SolarSystem** June 5, 2014 9:16 am

I agree, mrshouse. They will have to do something with that story. So far we haven't heard anything about Mary's past from Mary herself, Sherlock and CAM were the ones who provided us with some clues. Apart from that, we know next to nothing.
They might decide to somehow let her save the day in terms of that whole Moriarty thing. That would be a scenario that also would make us have to love her, right?

**Posted by SusiGo** June 5, 2014 9:17 am

Only if she would somehow leave the boys alone afterwards.

**Posted by SolarSystem** June 5, 2014 9:23 am

She saves the day and dies. Redemption on the greatest scale.

**Posted by mrshouse** June 5, 2014 9:28 am

Mofftiss would have a big task to make me truly like her. In simple terms: just not interested. The John Mary relationship is just a bit dull and actually bored everything out of me. There are lots of relationships that are much more interesting, even Donovan and Anderson!

**Posted by SusiGo** June 5, 2014 9:40 am

I do not have to like her. For me it would be enough to make her do something good and selfless for once and then writer her off the show.
And, yes, the lack of chemistry between John and Mary is astonishing. Martin and Amanda are good actors and know each other so well. Therefore I suppose it must be deliberate (saving all the chemistry for Sherlock and John).

Last edited by SusiGo (June 5, 2014 9:40 am)

**Posted by SolarSystem** June 5, 2014 9:47 am

This "dull" thing is pretty interesting. Especially in the first two episodes I found Mary as a person and her relationship with John to be pretty much that: dull. There were some nice scenes - I especially like the one where John is shaving his moustache off - but mostly it just didn't feel very interesting. But then again to be fair: Their relationship could never be as exciting as the relationship John and Sherlock are having.

And yes to Susi's "I do not have to like her. For me it would be enough..."-statement.

**Posted by mrshouse** June 5, 2014 10:00 am

Yes to the mentioned above, we don't have to like her. But this is the trouble I have: Martin and Amanda are both great actors and I love them together in real life. But it's not a guarantee that you bounce each other off on screen. And that is IMHO the big casting mistake Mofftiss made.
And now for a new status

Last edited by mrshouse (June 5, 2014 10:00 am)

**Posted by SusiGo** June 5, 2014 10:03 am

Well, I am not sure if it is a mistake. The script simply does not provide the romance. Therefore I must assume that it was the writers' deliberate choice to show their relationship that way. Just think of the fact that Mary does never say she loves John.

**Posted by nakahara** June 5, 2014 10:03 am

But relationship between John and Mary was considered "normal and ordinary", so it probably wasn´t supposed to be interesting in a way that would glue us to the TV screens.

And honestly, what normal and docile wife (as Mary was posing herself) would be able to compete with Sherlock brilliantly excentric personality?

In the presence of a brilliant person,
how could others even be seen then?
It´s as if the sun has risen to the sky -
stars became invisible, through there are gallaxies of them.

It´s only now, when Mary was revealed to be a killer with a dark past, that she became interesting. Story wise, her character could produce some dramatic conflict when her past would rise to bite her in the ass.

**Posted by mrshouse** June 5, 2014 10:09 am

But, Nakahara, if the story arc revolves around a romance I want to be glued to the screen! And, no Susi, I think Martin "I can do that with a look, cut lines" could have done his facial expressions a lot warmer and more affectionate in a couple of scenes. He's not at ease.

**Posted by nakahara** June 5, 2014 10:14 am

mrshouse wrote:
But, Nakahara, if the story arc revolves around a romance I want to be glued to the screen! And, no Susi, I think Martin "I can do that with a look, cut lines" could have done his facial expressions a lot warmer and more affectionate in a couple of scenes. He's not at ease.

I think it was done deliberately like that - Moftiss lulled us into the belief that what we see is just normal romance between two unasuming people - and then, when they hit us over our heads with revelation in HLV, that "innocent romance" was suddenly cast into a sinister light.

**Posted by maryagrawatson** June 5, 2014 12:47 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Just think of the fact that Mary does never say she loves John.

That doesn't mean anything. "I love you" are just three words, often overused. Actions speak much louder and are much less ambiguous.

I think Mary really believes that she loves John and I think that John loves what Mary represents. Are they IN love? Who knows? But to me, they feel right for each other.

Mary

**Posted by SusiGo** June 5, 2014 12:55 pm

If you love someone you will do everything to make that person happy even and keep them safe, maybe even if your own happiness may suffer. Someone comes to my mind when I think of this description but it is not Mary.

**Posted by maryagrawatson** June 5, 2014 1:10 pm

SusiGo wrote:
If you love someone you will do everything to make that person happy even and keep them safe, maybe even if your own happiness may suffer. Someone comes to my mind when I think of this description but it is not Mary.

But is that love or residual guilt?

Mary

**Posted by mrshouse** June 5, 2014 1:21 pm

Do you mean still guilt for the fall, Mary? Gosh, Sherlock paid three episodes for this, now, what are Mary's debts?

**Posted by maryagrawatson** June 5, 2014 1:42 pm

Yes, guilt for the fall. That's the point of the whole series, Sherlock coming to realise how much he means to people and therefore how much he can hurt them, and then trying to make up for that hurt.

Mary

**Posted by mrshouse** June 5, 2014 1:45 pm

Ok, so where does Mary realize she means something to John, not only vv, and pays for taking at risk his best friends life yet again? Will that be the content of S 4 then? Will John finally pay Sherlock back for being his friend?

Last edited by mrshouse (June 5, 2014 1:46 pm)

**Posted by tonnaree** June 5, 2014 2:17 pm

mrshouse wrote:
But, Nakahara, if the story arc revolves around a romance I want to be glued to the screen! And, no Susi, I think Martin "I can do that with a look, cut lines" could have done his facial expressions a lot warmer and more affectionate in a couple of scenes. He's not at ease.

And the story arch does not revolve around the romance between John and Mary. TSoT was so obviously not about John and Mary, like everything else it was about the relationship between John and Sherlock.

**Posted by SusiGo** June 5, 2014 2:26 pm

I think it is love. Sherlock knows John has been hurt badly by himself and somehow tries to make up for the hurt Mary has caused. But the reason he does this is that he loves John (I think everyone can agree he does, Johnlocker or not).