Film references in S4

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Posted by SusiGo
March 7, 2017 8:53 pm
#1

This is an amazing collection of all the film homages and references in S4, especially TFP:

http://goodmythicalmail.tumblr.com/post/158103751031/so-i-attempted-to-cram-as-many-of-s4s-film
 

Last edited by SusiGo (March 8, 2017 8:02 am)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by tonnaree
March 7, 2017 10:52 pm
#2

Fantastic!


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Posted by besleybean
March 8, 2017 6:38 am
#3

Interesting to see.


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Posted by SusiGo
March 8, 2017 8:10 am
#4

Yes, it is indeed interesting. And I think it also explains why many people disliked TFP. Sherlock created a style that has been copied by other shows. And then we suddenly got an episode full of allusions to other films so to some it might not feel like Sherlock. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by Vhanja
March 8, 2017 8:49 am
#5

Thanks for the link, very interesting! Although I am wondering if Morgan could be a reference, seeing as that was out in 2016 and S4 was shot spring 2016 (so the scripts would've have to be finished very early in 2016, I assume).


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Posted by besleybean
March 8, 2017 5:21 pm
#6

I love references and they certainly didn't stop me loving TFP.


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Posted by Liberty
March 8, 2017 5:53 pm
#7

Me too!  Even though I often don't get them.  I wondered about the 2016 film too (if it was a little too late to be referenced).  But yes, I wonder if that was one of the reasons that the episode wasn't so liked by some ... not just the references, but the confusion over genre - it did verge a little into horror territory at times.  Mind you, so did the old Rathbone/Bruce films. 

 
Posted by besleybean
March 8, 2017 5:54 pm
#8

I hate horror, but loved the tropes in TFP!


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Posted by Liberty
March 8, 2017 6:21 pm
#9

It's not my favourite genre, but I do love some.  Cronenberg's body horror, David Lynch strays into horror at times, Alien, The Shining, The Others, Don't Look Now, The Night of the Hunter, some of the old classics ... I like quite a lot that could fall into that category, and I did really like the horror aspects of TFP.

 
Posted by Lis
March 8, 2017 7:19 pm
#10

It's definitely interesting to see the scenes side by side. I wonder how many scenes were deliberate choices and how many were due to the fact that there is nothing new under the sun. It has all been done before.


                                                                                                                      

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Posted by besleybean
March 8, 2017 7:19 pm
#11

I suspect a bit of both.


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Posted by Schmiezi
March 8, 2017 8:18 pm
#12

That is a really interesting film. do films like that exist for S 1 -3 as well? I'd love to know if there are just as many references to films as in S4.


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Posted by SusiGo
March 9, 2017 8:11 am
#13

I do not think so, Schmiezi, and I am sure this is because S1 - 3 created their very own style. I cannot remember any review or fan ever talking about parallels with other films or genres. Sherlock's enormous success has been due to its being something new, finding its own visual language and style. 

And therefore I can understand that many people are unhappy with S4, especially TFP. I still like the episodes, there is still brilliance in it, but I sometimes feel that they lost or gave up their very own Sherlock style. And never more so than in TFP. 

For me, the most obvious parallel is Bond. If I remember correctly, S2 came out before Skyfall and I remember watching the film and thinking of TRF at once. But S4 was filmed after Spectre and I think it shows. 

What I do not understand about these references is this: They had something amazing and original, a show that has been admired and copied by others (even here in Germany) and then they went and made an episode that was in many ways ... not Sherlock. There was no need to do this. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 
Posted by Vhanja
March 9, 2017 11:35 am
#14

I think this might go back to "insane wishfulfilment". They just let out all ther fanboy-ism and put into Sherlock a lot of stuff from different genres they might want to do, but never had the chance to.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 
Posted by Rache
March 9, 2017 3:32 pm
#15

Oh, very intersting stuff. Thanks a lot!

Vhanja wrote:

I think this might go back to "insane wishfulfilment". They just let out all ther fanboy-ism and put into Sherlock a lot of stuff from different genres they might want to do, but never had the chance to.

Yeah, I agree. I think they wanted to try out things, do really "cool" stuff they had in mind. Like they went "Hey, just imagine Sherlock is in this or that situation. You know, just like in the film/book xy? You know, we've been talking about these things for a long time. Dreaming about the endless possibilities there are to explore. What fun would it be with our Sherlock characters. Let's do the things we love with our show, that we love."
And they did it now, because they don't know, if they ever continue.

Last edited by Rache (March 9, 2017 3:34 pm)


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Posted by besleybean
March 9, 2017 5:07 pm
#16

This is so.


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Posted by Liberty
March 9, 2017 6:33 pm
#17

Yes, me three to all of the above.  It was an indulgence, a bit like TAB was an indulgence (the chance to do a Victorian episode).  I think Sherlock has always been a bit of a mix of genres anyway - part drama, part thriller, part detective story, part comedy, etc.  Given that this might be the last episode, I think they just had fun with it.  And funnily enough, at the end, brought it back to very traditional, Holmes and Watson, Baker Street, solving cases, etc.  

My slight disappointment was that they'd promoted it as if it was going to be like a Rathbone film, and I didn't really get that vibe as much as I'd expected to.   But obviously, if I hadn't read what was maybe a throwaway comment on their part, then I wouldn't have expected it. 
 

 
Posted by besleybean
March 9, 2017 6:41 pm
#18

I hadn't read that so didn't know what to expect, I wasn't disappointed!


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