BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Our favorite villains

**Posted by Naavy** January 20, 2017 7:16 pm

besleybean wrote:
Yes I was going to add on my last post: possibly he's just Sherlock...does everyone have to have a label?

Of course, not. I believe, Sherlock is too complicated, to fit any sort of label.
...
And what about Mary as a villain? I liked her; she really knew, what she wanted. Unfortunately she always was ready to attack - even, when Sherlock proved many times, how much he cared about her, she never trusted him enough to accept his help (except when help already was not necessary).
I liked also the theory about her, being one of the shooters in TGG, in pool scene... ;]

Last edited by Naavy (January 20, 2017 7:18 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** January 20, 2017 7:18 pm

Well I think not now, as she wasn't working with Moriarty.

**Posted by Lis** January 20, 2017 7:25 pm

Moriarty is still my favourite villain and I love all of his scenes! I think with the other villains there might be a few scenes or maybe even just parts of scenes where I could skip or at least not give my full attention to but every time Moriarty is on screen I'm engrossed.

**Posted by besleybean** January 20, 2017 7:29 pm

Hell, me too.
Brilliant, sexy, funny...what's not to like?!

**Posted by Naavy** January 20, 2017 7:39 pm

besleybean wrote:
Well I think not now, as she wasn't working with Moriarty.

Most likely she kept low profile. However, if she some reasons needed money, and wanted to "earn" them, like she always did, and also she was as good, as we were said - she could have no choice, but working for him. Moriarty was "Napoleon of crime" in London - and she had to follow his rules.
I can imagine her, on the pool - maybe John impressed her already then. But she was afraid of Sherlock's skills, and Moriarty was dangerous for her too. She get closer to John after the death (and "death") of both...

Is it not the nice story? ;)

Last edited by Naavy (January 20, 2017 7:40 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** January 20, 2017 7:40 pm

Great...but I don't think it happened.

**Posted by Naavy** January 20, 2017 7:42 pm

Now I think so too... But I liked the theory very much

**Posted by Liberty** January 20, 2017 7:58 pm

Well, I think she worked well temporarily as a villain (in HLV)!

**Posted by besleybean** January 20, 2017 7:59 pm

Yeah, but not for Moriarty and anyway if she was a villain, so was Sherlock!

**Posted by Naavy** January 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Sherlock was the truehearted defender...

**Posted by besleybean** January 20, 2017 8:55 pm

Well, that's how I see him.

**Posted by Yitzock** January 20, 2017 9:20 pm

I think Mary is more of an antihero or tragic hero than a villain.

As far as my favourite villain, I don't know how to answer it, whether I should answer based on who I liked watching the most or who I was scared of most, or who I thought was most interesting. I think all the villains of Sherlock have something interesting about them. I think Magnussen was more just straight-up despicable, so perhaps the least interesting in that way, but still not a bad villain because we are scared of him and made uncomfortable by him. Culverton Smith is similar in that way, but even more disturbing in some ways. They would win if we're only going off of who I wanted to see go away forever the most.

Euros was also terrifying for most of the series, but we know her past so I think her story is an interesting one. I don't know if she's still 100% villain at the end, when Sherlock starts to spend time with her, but I suppose she is still in Sherrinford so she still can't integrate back into society, even if she is given her moments and her space and interaction.

We don't have as much background on Moriarty, but he is always interesting to watch. He's creepy but also entertaining, making us laugh even as he is chilling and evil.

So I guess Euros and Moriarty would be my favourites, if we're thinking of interesting characters that are other than just scary characters.

**Posted by Schmiezi** January 21, 2017 7:48 am

Eurus is my favourite. That's why I am so willing to ignore the plot holes in TFP.

Her story is interesting, she is unpredictable (at least to me) and crazy, and yet, when Sherlock finds her in her old room, I am sorry for her despite all she did.

**Posted by besleybean** January 21, 2017 8:40 am

Yes, both an excellent written and portrayed character.

**Posted by Liberty** January 21, 2017 12:02 pm

I just can't choose! Eurus is my favourite at the moment, but it may be because she's the one I've seen most recently. But I agree, she's oddly probably the most outwardly evil and the most sympathetic of the bunch!

**Posted by besleybean** January 21, 2017 12:04 pm

I think it's the finely written nuance of the characters that I enjoy most of all with BBC Sherlock.

**Posted by Azor** January 21, 2017 2:18 pm

besleybean wrote:
Well possibly he is a sociopath, rather than a psychopath.

There is no difference in today's psychological literature. (Which has nothing to do with DSM.)
There are other distinctions, but this one is quite outdated.

I shouldn't ruminate on this, but it's misleading. It's not about labels, in real life it is good to know if someone is a psychopath or not, but this type of films (anyway, I loved the whole series) make some confusions about it...

**Posted by besleybean** January 21, 2017 3:28 pm

I just take Sherlock as he is.
I criticise if I feel he does or says wrong and applaud when he gets it right.

**Posted by Naavy** January 21, 2017 9:35 pm

Sherlock is the man, who wants, and pretends to be worse, than he really is...

But let's come back to Mary... ;]
In HLV we were said, why John chose her... But not, how she did chose him. What was John's chance, to start working together with the former assassin - accidentally?

**Posted by besleybean** January 21, 2017 9:40 pm

I was just thinking about this, too.
As we have never been given an alternative explanation, it does indeed seem that John and Mary actually met through pure chance. This of course makes a lie out of any theories that Mary deliberately targeted John to get at Sherlock. Heck, she could have bumped Sherlock off anytime she wanted, without going through the farce of marrying John ad giving him a child.

Last edited by besleybean (January 21, 2017 9:40 pm)