BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Questions about TFP

**Posted by Vhanja** January 16, 2017 6:08 pm

This question isn't for TFP in particular, both for the whole of the season (and half of seasons 3):

What was the point of the baby? She served no function at all in the narrative, and was either in the way of the story-telling or completely ignored. In both TLD and TFP Sherlock and John are on their adventures again, just like old times, and Rosie is just "with friends".

**Posted by besleybean** January 16, 2017 6:16 pm

Well, possibly they didn't know they were going to be ending the series so soon, when she was first brought in.
She did add to the angst of the loss of Mary and gave a lovely insight to Sherlock + baby.

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 16, 2017 6:31 pm

Maybe the baby was brought in, in order to make Mary's death the more terrible?

**Posted by Liberty** January 16, 2017 6:36 pm

I think the baby was so we get the wrong idea about who the "three" were, in TSOT!

**Posted by Vhanja** January 16, 2017 6:40 pm

Not sure if they really thought it through. If there ever will be a season 5, will Rosie continue to be "with friends?" They can't jump too far into the future (having her moved out) due to the age of Ben and Martin, so the will have to deal with having child actors of various ages to tag along.

**Posted by Kiara_Katsura** January 16, 2017 6:42 pm

stoertebeker wrote:
kgreen20 wrote:
tonnaree wrote:

John is the fourth. Sherlock made it clear that John is family now and should be treated as such.
Mycroft has a brother-in-law in spirit if not in canon.
Or a second brother, rather, since there's never been any romantic involvement between Sherlock and John.

Question is, will Mycroft ever accept John as a second brother in spirit?

I think, he already has. He was willing to die for him (well, instead of him to be precise).

I think it was more for Sherlock, he knew how much John meant to Sherlock and how much John helped Sherlock in ways he feels he can't. He believed that if only one of them was left to watch over Sherlock, it would be best for John to remain.

Also, maybe destroying the flat was meant as a clean slate type thing? Even though they fixed the flat to its previous look, it was still...new.

**Posted by Naavy** January 16, 2017 6:48 pm

ewige wrote:
They have never had a dog.
Redbeard was Victor all along.

You are right, I simply misunderstood. I guess, I wanted Sherlock to have a dog at least for a short time.
However - he could remember some neighbor's dog, and dog's bowl.

Liberty wrote:
I did notice the lack of glass - or rather I guessed that there wouldn't be glass, rather than noticed it! But I'm happy to suspend disbelief and think that it was such a tense time for Sherlock that he didn't notice!

I believe, usually in movies in such scenes there is no real glass - no need, if actors can simply pretend to see it. That's the reason, why we did not expect to really see the glass in this particular scene.

Last edited by Naavy (January 16, 2017 8:03 pm)

**Posted by ewige** January 16, 2017 6:51 pm

There was glass in Silence of the Lambs

And I also love what was done with glass reflections at the end of TFP! The shots with Sherlock and Eurus and their mirror images are so beautiful I could cry.

**Posted by Naavy** January 16, 2017 7:05 pm

ewige wrote:
There was glass in Silence of the Lambs .

...And I quess, the cameraman's and lighting engineer's work was because this glass much harder

ewige wrote:
And I also love what was done with glass reflections at the end of TFP! The shots with Sherlock and Eurus and their mirror images are so beautiful I could cry.

I agree, this take is beautiful, and meaningful.

Last edited by Naavy (January 16, 2017 7:06 pm)

**Posted by NicoleCollard** January 16, 2017 7:21 pm

I agree with the whole baby thing. She is always with friends, but, which friends? John doesn't have many friends, apart from Lestrade, Mrs. Hudson, Molly and Sherlock. And was it really necessary to add the little baby girl since she is a problem for storytelling? It would have worked better without her, I think.

And I think they bombed and destroyed 221B because the characters' world was falling to pieces. The end of an era. Now they rebuild the flat as they rebuild their lives. Kind of a beautiful metaphore.

Last edited by NicoleCollard (January 16, 2017 7:22 pm)

**Posted by ewige** January 16, 2017 7:25 pm

NicoleCollard wrote:
And I think they bombed and destroyed 221B because the characters' world was falling to pieces. The end of an era. Now they rebuild the flat as they rebuild their lives. Kind of a beautiful metaphore.

Thank you.

**Posted by Preceja** January 16, 2017 7:42 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Not sure if they really thought it through. If there ever will be a season 5, will Rosie continue to be "with friends?" They can't jump too far into the future (having her moved out) due to the age of Ben and Martin, so the will have to deal with having child actors of various ages to tag along.

I think that different age of child actors is the smallest problem. But what to do with her? They must jump several years, now they are in 2015, but it is not enough.
In canon John had several wives, only Mary was mentioned at least by name. So John can get married again, his wife only mentioned as existing and can take care of Rosie. But I am not sure if it is a good solution.

**Posted by besleybean** January 16, 2017 8:05 pm

It's really up to John how he sorts his personal affairs...but he won't be walking down the aisle with Sherlock.

**Posted by Ivy** January 16, 2017 8:07 pm

The explosion scene was so ridiculous, like watching Die Hard part 9 or something similar.

i'm-so-cHAngeAbLE wrote:
1. Who did Sherlock text at the end???!!!!!!!??

my first thougt was Irene Adler

**Posted by Naavy** January 16, 2017 8:29 pm

Preceja wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
Not sure if they really thought it through. If there ever will be a season 5, will Rosie continue to be "with friends?" They can't jump too far into the future (having her moved out) due to the age of Ben and Martin, so the will have to deal with having child actors of various ages to tag along.
I think that different age of child actors is the smallest problem. But what to do with her? They must jump several years, now they are in 2015, but it is not enough.
In canon John had several wives, only Mary was mentioned at least by name. So John can get married again, his wife only mentioned as existing and can take care of Rosie. But I am not sure if it is a good solution.

I really liked Sherlock's interaction with Archie, and I would be happy to see Archie in the fourth season too. Though there was no place or time to bring him back to the story, i imagine, the next child character could work pretty good too. And, taking into account, that John is the lonely parent now, a nanny (or nannies) as the next new character(s) could be the interesting part of the new season too.
Nannies could take care of 3 or 5 or 7 years old Rosie. And let's add Sherlock, deducing the new nannies, or disguised criminals ;) and new threats - there could be the great variety of new opportunities :D

Last edited by Naavy (January 16, 2017 10:17 pm)

**Posted by Kiara_Katsura** January 16, 2017 9:59 pm

Random questions but, did anyone else notice Mycroft's thumb bleeding after Sherlock revealed it was him messing with his bother in the beginning? What was the cause?

Last edited by Kiara_Katsura (January 16, 2017 10:00 pm)

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 16, 2017 10:22 pm

I didn't notice the bleeding (I'll look for it next re-watch!) but maybe it happened when he removed the blade to reveal the gun in the brolly?

**Posted by WhoIWantToBe** January 16, 2017 11:37 pm

Liberty wrote:
When Sherlock seems to be about to kill himself with the gun, do you think he intended to do it, or do you think he had worked out that Eurus wouldn't let him?

I think, given his dialogue about suicide in TLD, he would not have killed himself and banked on Eurus changing the game. He seemed to come to such a powerful conclusion in TLD on how death impacts those around you, and I'd like to think the character would not disregard that development. Then again, I am not too sure based on the loose threads of S4...

**Posted by kgreen20** January 17, 2017 3:06 am

Naavy wrote:
Preceja wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
Not sure if they really thought it through. If there ever will be a season 5, will Rosie continue to be "with friends?" They can't jump too far into the future (having her moved out) due to the age of Ben and Martin, so the will have to deal with having child actors of various ages to tag along.
I think that different age of child actors is the smallest problem. But what to do with her? They must jump several years, now they are in 2015, but it is not enough.
In canon John had several wives, only Mary was mentioned at least by name. So John can get married again, his wife only mentioned as existing and can take care of Rosie. But I am not sure if it is a good solution.
I really liked Sherlock's interaction with Archie, and I would be happy to see Archie in the fourth season too. Though there was no place or time to bring him back to the story, i imagine, the next child character could work pretty good too. And, taking into account, that John is the lonely parent now, a nanny (or nannies) as the next new character(s) could be the interesting part of the new season too.
Nannies could take care of 3 or 5 or 7 years old Rosie. And let's add Sherlock, deducing the new nannies, or disguised criminals ;) and new threats - there could be the great variety of new opportunities :D

Not a bad idea, but who would pay the nanny's salary? John can't afford to, since he's not rich, so the Holmeses would have to do so.

**Posted by Schmiezi** January 17, 2017 5:25 am

Do John and Rosie live at 221b at the end?