BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Could S4 be the last one?

**Posted by besleybean** January 14, 2017 7:59 pm

I disagree.
Well in the sense that I think they will tie everything up...rather than everyone!
But it will be a point where it could either be left or possibly picked up again...remember Benedict did say he thought it ends at a point where it would be difficult to follow- at least for a very long time.

Last edited by besleybean (January 14, 2017 7:59 pm)

**Posted by Liberty** January 14, 2017 8:08 pm

ewige wrote:
Liberty wrote:
As for further episodes .... I'm beginning to feel that "the story we've been telling all along" may just be what they originally said they were going to tell - i.e. how Sherlock became the mature, Rathbone-era Sherlock Holmes.
But do you think Sherlock will ever stop becoming more mature? His character development is the major arc of the story, it can't just stop. That would be unrealistic too - people grow wiser every day, not until a certain point. And if the end of an era meas the end of arrogant, self-absorbed, emotionally unsure Sherlock we all know and love, it won't be the same show anymore.

I suppose I feel I've been seeing a process of him integrating his human side. That in future it might not cause so much conflict. Mature Sherlock can still be arrogant and self-absorbed, but maybe emotionally less wobbly - knows how to use it and not get overwhelmed, "humans" aren't such a mystery, more self-assured, etc. Of course he could develop further, but I'm aware that there have been comments along the lines of this feeling like a natural end. Which makes me think that he has got where he was going - or where they planned he was going earlier on. He is now approaching middle age.

**Posted by Rache** January 14, 2017 9:05 pm

What I am constantly wondering about is their talk about s4 would/could be tv history.
I mean TLD was brilliant, and even if TFP is more brilliant than that, I still can't see that it would be classified as tv history.

In at least one interview with Sue Vertue, I have heard a sentence like: 'If we are able to pull this off, we're making tv history.'
What do they mean 'if' ?? I am very sure this was long after filming series 4. So why if? They either did it at this point or did not. It is giving me headscratchers...

Last edited by Rache (January 14, 2017 9:06 pm)

**Posted by Liberty** January 14, 2017 10:01 pm

I had some ideas about what exciting things they might be doing, but somebody (I think it might have been Shani) mentioned that Sue's reaction to Amanda's words (about TV history, etc.) appeared to be because they were hyperbole. And I'm now filled with doubt! So I don't know. "TV history" suggested to me an event (I kept thinking War of the Worlds) rather than a plot point, but now I'm not sure.

**Posted by ewige** January 14, 2017 10:05 pm

Liberty wrote:
I had some ideas about what exciting things they might be doing, but somebody (I think it might have been Shani) mentioned that Sue's reaction to Amanda's words (about TV history, etc.) appeared to be because they were hyperbole. And I'm now filled with doubt! So I don't know. "TV history" suggested to me an event (I kept thinking War of the Worlds) rather than a plot point, but now I'm not sure.

Do you remember Ben going "Love conquers all" and Steven facepalming himself at SDCC?
Maybe it was the same here. Maybe Sue was just shocked that Amanda had spilled the beans, so she needed to make a funny "what is she talking about" face to cover the slip-up?

**Posted by Rache** January 14, 2017 10:07 pm

Sorry, I think I didn't get that, Liberty. Can you explain? What are you not sure about? Do you currently think it could be more an event or a plot point?

**Posted by Liberty** January 14, 2017 10:46 pm

Well, the first TV history (or rather broadcasting history) broadcast that came to mind was War of the Worlds, where there was some overlap between reality and fiction - it famously caused panic, as people thought the programme was news of a real life invasion (although I gather the level of panic was much exaggerated!). I thought it would be possible to do some overlap into real life with Sherlock - for instance, having something on the news that coincided with the broadcast date. They have done some events outside of the TV broadcast (e.g. Piccadilly Circus) but nothing major. I just didn't feel that a plot point would be "TV history" - it had to be something bigger and specific to the medium.

But somebody pointed out that it looks as if Amanda is exaggerating about TV history, and perhaps all it means is an exciting series with plot twists. So I'm now getting prepared to be disappointed. I think it will be a plot point, in fact I think it won't be TV history after all. But I'd be delighted if it was something bigger, and of course there's still that chance!

Last edited by Liberty (January 14, 2017 10:52 pm)

**Posted by Liberty** January 14, 2017 10:51 pm

ewige wrote:
Liberty wrote:
I had some ideas about what exciting things they might be doing, but somebody (I think it might have been Shani) mentioned that Sue's reaction to Amanda's words (about TV history, etc.) appeared to be because they were hyperbole. And I'm now filled with doubt! So I don't know. "TV history" suggested to me an event (I kept thinking War of the Worlds) rather than a plot point, but now I'm not sure.
Do you remember Ben going "Love conquers all" and Steven facepalming himself at SDCC?
Maybe it was the same here. Maybe Sue was just shocked that Amanda had spilled the beans, so she needed to make a funny "what is she talking about" face to cover the slip-up?

I do remember, but if I remember correctly, Steven didn't facepalm at a spoiler, but at the possible reaction to Benedict saying it ("and tumblr just got pregnant!"). And I don't think Amanda revealed anything, as evidenced by the fact that we still don't have much of a clue what she was talking about!

**Posted by ewige** January 14, 2017 10:52 pm

I'd love for it to be a RL cross over the way you explained it, Liberty, however, that wouldn't translate. Other countries have other RL programs. Something coming up on BBC One wouldn't feel like TV history outside of the UK.

**Posted by ewige** January 14, 2017 10:55 pm

Liberty wrote:
I do remember, but if I remember correctly, Steven didn't facepalm at a spoiler, but at the possible reaction to Benedict saying it ("and tumblr just got pregnant!"). And I don't think Amanda revealed anything, as evidenced by the fact that we still don't have much of a clue what she was talking about!

I need to watch it again now
I wonder whether AA is in the last ep at all, seeing how John (and Sherlock) made peace with Mary's death and stopped seeing her in TLD.

**Posted by besleybean** January 14, 2017 10:57 pm

I take it that she isn't .
Hence her lack of attendance at the preview.

**Posted by Liberty** January 14, 2017 10:58 pm

Well, no, and it wouldn't work for repeat screenings either. But it would still fit in with TV history better than a plot point would. It's set in London, so it wouldn't have to happen all over the world, just there. The first thing I'd thought of was making it look as if "Miss Me" was interrupting multiple broadcasts - that kind of thing. I also thought of having a fake news segment screening after the show appeared to be finished. It could even have been the start of the episode - instead of starting there appears to be a newsflash. Or a different programme of some sort. Just ideas - I can't write this stuff! I was hoping they would come up with something more inventive than I can!

I'm still holding out hope that there actually will be some TV history made.

**Posted by ewige** January 14, 2017 11:06 pm

Liberty wrote:
I'm still holding out hope that there actually will be some TV history made.

I'm holding out hope that it will have to do with LGBT representation

**Posted by Liberty** January 14, 2017 11:06 pm

Crossposting, sorry, if Amanda is in TFP I imagine it will be briefly, in flashback or whatever. I feel ghost Mary has been resolved in TLD.

I found the SDCC clip - go to about 45.29 https://youtu.be/faq-rvIkjZk?t=45m29s

**Posted by Liberty** January 14, 2017 11:10 pm

About LGBT representation ... definitely there is not enough, but it would not be TV history to have two men get together in a TV show (if that's what you're thinking). We had a male same sex kiss on a major TV soap way back in the 80s. That was TV history, back then, but that ship has now sailed! Thankfully!

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** January 14, 2017 11:32 pm

The 'TV history' thing is running in circles in my brain... but I suppose I'll know tomorrow!

I am trying, still, to ignore the idea that this might be the last season... I live in hope; and knowing that the team all want to do more... and that's something at least! But what ever happens I know this is a show with so much material and so much meta and hidden details that it won't just go away. Consider that people still talk of the Rathbone adaptions.

We've been given something great... but I cling on to the hope that we could get more... maybe we'd have to wait... but we are the fandom that waited, and I'm prepared to wait!

**Posted by Schmiezi** January 15, 2017 7:49 am

At the moment, I am sure that we will get a brilliant episode but not TV history. Maybe that is just me preparing to be realistic about it.

There is something else I can't get off my mind. Steve and Mark once said something about making their childhood dream about Sherlock Holmes come true this series. Does anybody remember that too? Do we have clues what that could be?

Last edited by Schmiezi (January 15, 2017 7:58 am)

**Posted by ewige** January 15, 2017 8:12 am

There are speculations about alternative endings of TFP. Something like this can be TV history if it works.

**Posted by besleybean** January 15, 2017 8:36 am

I do remember this being mentioned before...

**Posted by Pops** January 15, 2017 8:56 am

I'm preparing myself for TFP to be the last episode ever. So, if there is more in years to come, I can only be pleasantly surprised !

As for TV history, an alternate ending might do the trick, especially after the advanced screening. What's the point of that event when you know spoilers will be flying around ? Maybe there's something that wasn't shown, and Mark and Steven may have something else up their sleeves...

Last edited by Pops (January 15, 2017 8:57 am)