BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Which direction will Mary's character go? (SPOILERS after SDCC!)

**Posted by mrshouse** July 25, 2016 5:26 pm

Okay, Susi suggested that a new Marythread with spoilers for the upcoming season might be a good idea after all we've learned and analyzed from the SDCC. So, the following is basically a collection from what I've got so far, please feel free to add:
- Amanda obviously did not feel comfortable to talk freely about Baby Watson. This could tell us either that it will not be on for very long. It could be quickly used as a token of danger and then dissappear in one way or the other. Or it could be that it is still strictly forbidden to give any clues whatsoever to talk about how long Mary and Baby are on the show, since this is one of the most important questions for a lot of fans, and they simply stay for the duration.
- There were also quite strange remarks about the duration of her pregnancy and an elephant was mentioned, which is in my opinion just a little joke about an overproportionate growth of the fetus. Might be a cover for the giving-birth-in-a-car-with-the-help-from-my-boys-scene that setlockers have watched.
- Amanda was also a bit cautious to talk about the state of her marriage. Again, both outcomes possible: that we get them together in what they deem a happy marriage, or we get some surprises and a nasty divorce.
- The for my likes disappointing bit is that we don't seem to get back to that damn AGRA-stick. Personally I'm preparing to have to shove that one under the rug.
- We might visit Mary's past in some way though, as in the trailer there is a dark-haired Mary without wedding band clearly on some sort of assasin business. I go for a flashback.
-Finally this was the first time that Amanda admits that Mary is a deeply divisive character. Since she denied it in earlier interviews, thank you for that!
So, my quintessence: no come back to HLV (unfortunately), but possibly visiting her past, maybe making something better out of her than just a killer. Then a couple of Warstan family and uncle Sherlock scenes, but quickly turning into dark territories of being endangered. Then chances are her story will be told.
- oh, I forgot: if you check ibdm, Amanda is only listed for the first episode.
What does everybody think?

**Posted by SolarSystem** July 25, 2016 5:35 pm

Just a quick answer from me: imdb is not the most reliable source, so I wouldn't be too sure about Mary disappearing after only one episode. It could be a trick of course, but the fact that they brought AA to SDCC and the way in which she talked about S4 seems to suggest that Mary will be in all three episodes.

I agree about the USB stick. It seems more and more likely that we won't go back to anything from HLV at all - apart from Mary's past. And getting to know more about her past was to be expected.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** July 25, 2016 6:20 pm

Hey, y'all! What I'm thinking about (from the other thread) is how Amanda's assertion that John never checked the thumb drive affects perceptions of John. Honestly, I thought that this was true all along, and it's had a profound effect on my opinion of him; I think his loyalties are badly conflicted, I think he wants to be the "good, moral man" at the cost of his morals.

That's not all Mary's fault. It makes John willfuly complicit in this situation.

As for Mary-- I suspect that s4 will not resolve anything from HLV.

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (July 25, 2016 6:21 pm)

**Posted by Vhanja** July 25, 2016 6:23 pm

As I see it, this is a thread about Mary, not John. (Maybe we need a thread about John with spoilers as well? Or to simplify it, a character thread for S4 spoilers?)

To be honest, I don't see how we have gotten enough information about Mary in S4 to discuss that on it's own. We saw her with dark hair in the trailer, which I reckon is a flashback seeing as she's been blondein every Setlock scene we've seen her in. So I still don't know anything more about her now than I did a month ago.

**Posted by mrshouse** July 25, 2016 6:27 pm

I agree about not discussing John here. However I do not agree that we have nothing more to dissect now. I've listed a couple in my entry. I'm aware that a lot is speculation but we have new things out of which it can grow.

**Posted by Vhanja** July 25, 2016 6:31 pm

Well, as for the baby, I find that quite interesting. I think we are discussing it in several threads now, but why not here as well? The fact that they all become very elusive and awkward whenever the baby is discussed, tells me that I am quite sure something will happen to her. And probably quite early on too. Would (partly) explain the "emotional rollercoaster" and "darker" tone of the series.

**Posted by Liberty** July 25, 2016 6:33 pm

I think she was dark-haired in the file in Magnussen's mind palace, so yes, a flashback seems likely.

I think the joke about the pregnancy was about the fact that she has been pregnant since 2014 (2013 if you count filmin, and possibly 2012 chronologically in the show - I'm hazy on the dates at the moment). From Amanda's point of view, it must have been funny to still be strapping on a fake belly in 2016! She will actually have been pregnant during three airings - S3, TAB and S4. Which does sound like a long pregnancy, even if it isn't!

I don't know where it's going - there have been little hints from Amanda that Mary could be evil - the horns picture, etc. And telling her to stop assassinating people suggests she's going to be assassinating people in S4. But, maybe that's just in flashback?

I'm also intrigued by that scene with the little girl (from setlock), that was supposedly Mary. It does sound like mind palace (after all, she wouldn't have been Mary as a child, possibly not even Agra, which I suspect might have been a codename rather than a real name), but it does suggest we might be looking more deeply into Mary's past too, and possibly some sort of connection to Sherlock.

I wondered if the cageyness about any domestic scenes are because they aren't going to last long? I'm aware that what we've seen on setlock could just end up being a few minutes of footage.

I wouldn't pay much attention to IMDB - not many people listed there, even confirmed actors.

Last edited by Liberty (July 25, 2016 7:00 pm)

**Posted by Vhanja** July 25, 2016 6:39 pm

Wait a minute... a little girl that was supposedly Mary? Wow, I've missed something here, what was this?!

**Posted by Liberty** July 25, 2016 7:03 pm

Oh, I saw the spoiler sign at the top, so posted a spoiler from setlock - I've put it in tags just for safety just now. I'm not sure how much to spoil here?

Anyway, I've been playing in one of the other threads with the idea of Mary as Sherrinford. I kind of like it. (And of course if "it's never twins" means the opposite, she could be Mycroft or Sherlock's non-identical twin.). I'll probably go off this idea quite soon, but I'm enjoying it at the moment!

**Posted by besleybean** July 25, 2016 7:31 pm

Me, to.
Though I wasn't thinking of a twin.
I kind of assumed Sherrinford would be between Mycroft and Sherlock.

**Posted by Settercrazy** July 25, 2016 9:25 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Wait a minute... a little girl that was supposedly Mary? Wow, I've missed something here, what was this?!

During Setlock there's some kind of scene with a blonde girl running around in what is deemed a flashback scene and nobody is sure how it fits in the storyline. Are we seeing a little Mary here, or is Sherlock's sibling a blonde sister rather than a brother.... All pure conjecture at this time. :-)

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** July 25, 2016 9:35 pm

Wasn't that the girl that there were no pictures off, yet someone managed to describe her strangely well? Did that actually happen?

**Posted by Settercrazy** July 25, 2016 9:40 pm

I don't remember anymore. I listened to the ThreePatch podcast and they seemed to think it was legitimate reporting, but would have to go listen again to be certain.

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** July 25, 2016 9:41 pm

Someone from a fair distance reported that the girl had blue eyes... which seems off to me at least... but who knows.

**Posted by Liberty** July 26, 2016 5:56 am

Oh, if it's OK to talk about the little girl from setlock, that's what I was talking about in my spoiler, so safe to look! Yes, it sounded dodgy at first (I remember wondering because the person described the scene as a lake, when in fact it was a river), but it looked later that somebody confirmed it. The person, apparently, was on their own and looked like a walker rather than a setlocker so the crew didn't pay much attention from what I gather. They seemed sure that the girl was Mary, although we know she wouldn't have been called Mary at that age. (She'd have been called Sherrinford, of course! Ha ha!).

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** July 26, 2016 7:35 am

I thought that the current theory was that the little girl was most likely part of a Mind Palace sequence. Possibly Mary as a child?

**Posted by Liberty** July 26, 2016 7:40 am

Yes, I think so. It seemed to be Sherlock thinking about Mary. I seem to remember Mark as Mycroft was on location as well. It does make you wonder why Sherlock would be trying to deduce child Mary. Of course he could be going back into her past, but far? Unless there was some connection?

**Posted by SusiGo** July 26, 2016 9:34 am

I found this quite interesting (from Benedict's interview at SDCC):

Interviewer: So how is Sherlock dealing after killing someone to save his best friend?
Benedict Cumberbatch: Good Question! You’re going to have to wait until 2017 to find out the answer to that. I mean, you know, my hands are tied a little bit as to what I can say here.

Apart from the usual secrecy - the interviewer expressly states that Sherlock killed Magnussen to save John and Benedict does not correct him. Nothing about "give my love to Mary, tell her, she's safe now." Actually, in the whole interview Mary is never mentioned.

**Posted by This Is The Phantom Lady** July 26, 2016 9:45 am

Oh, did he forget himself a bit there? Or did he mean that the killing of Magnussen will be dealt with in certain ways in series 4? or?

**Posted by Liberty** July 26, 2016 10:09 am

I think it's the interviewer's fault there. I'm not sure if they just weren't clued in and remembered Sherlock as saving John (I have to admit, I got that feel from it too), or feel that by saving Mary Sherlock saved John (true) or if they know something about Sherlock's motivations that we don't (unlikely?), or even thought Mary was his best friend (unlikely again!), or even just slipped up by mistake. The question is how he deals with it, not about who he was saving, and Benedict's answer is very cagey, suggesting that there are going to be consequences! It's possible Sherlock might come to have regrets about saving Mary, but surely wouldn't ever regret saving John? Let me see if I can get the next sentence down.