BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Mary – the subject of discussion

**Posted by Vhanja** March 10, 2015 10:01 am

I always saw that last comment as a bit of comfort. Hugging his arm and trying to reassure him that they are both "in the same boat" (neither of them being the first).

However, her comments before that, rubbing in how much John talks about Sholto, I never quite got. Was she that clueless? Was it meant to be teasing?

**Posted by tykobrian** March 10, 2015 10:03 am

SusiGo wrote:
Same with me. I do not find anything comforting in her behaviour. And I am not sure she is even telling the truth here. John may have told her about Sholto but I do not believe that he talked about him all the time. Sherlock seems to think that he was the one John talked about and Mary twice confirms that it was Sholto, not Sherlock.
Which is contradicted at the beginning of HLV with Mary's annoyed "See? That does happen" which I always took as a hint the John talked about Sherlock far too often for Mary's liking.

(bolding mine)

Oh good observation! It was like the rerun of the "I agree, I'm the best thing that could've happened to you!! " moment. I was trying to pinpoint what Mary (and Moffitson) was trying to achieve from this conversation after knowing (and informing John) full well that Sherlock was afraid that things would change after John's marriage. I mean is she trying to outrun Sherlock to become the clueless jerk of the year or something? But if you ask me, I found her “John says he’s the most unsociable man he’s EVER met!” dialogue even more bizarre. More curious is the reason Moffitson gave her such lines.

**Posted by Vhanja** March 10, 2015 10:10 am

Her "See? That does happen" was for me in relation to someone not having heard of Sherlock. I imagine they have probably talked about it earlier, John probably saying something about how famous Sherlock has become, everybody knows who he is. And then they meet someone who hasn't heard of him, so it confirm what Mary was thinking (in their previous discussion about the topic).

That's how I see it.

**Posted by mrshouse** March 10, 2015 10:23 am

But which purpose does that serve? Why making Mary annoyed at all, if there's such a strong bond between her and Sherlock? There's no narrating need IMHO. What I could imagine is that it serves as a first hint for the viewers to expect a different character now than in the first two episodes.

**Posted by Vhanja** March 10, 2015 10:34 am

Good question. A slight joke? To be honest, both John and Mary seem quite tense in that entire scene.

**Posted by mrshouse** March 10, 2015 10:41 am

But joking about what exactly? Or it is part of the whole setup" John is bored and doesn't know yet that his wife is a BAMF who could please that longing as well"

**Posted by Vhanja** March 10, 2015 10:50 am

Joking about the fact that there does exist people in modern London that hasn't heard of Sherlock Holmes.

**Posted by Schmiezi** March 10, 2015 10:58 am

Vhanja wrote:
Joking about the fact that there does exist people in modern London that hasn't heard of Sherlock Holmes.

It seems to be out of character for John to enjoy a joke on Sherlock's behalve. Mary surely knows that.

**Posted by mrshouse** March 10, 2015 11:03 am

Thing is, the whole scene, beginning in the bedroom, continuing with the dream, the desperation of the neighbor, the slightly annoyed tone between the couple...nothing speaks to me of a jokey setup. As Vhanja already said, there's a tension that can be cut with a knife.

**Posted by Mattlocked** March 10, 2015 11:18 am

mrshouse wrote:
But which purpose does that serve? Why making Mary annoyed at all, if there's such a strong bond between her and Sherlock? There's no narrating need IMHO. What I could imagine is that it serves as a first hint for the viewers to expect a different character now than in the first two episodes.

I agree. Also could be a bit "jealous", as if John has been talking a lot about how famous Sherlock is.

**Posted by tykobrian** March 10, 2015 11:18 am

mrshouse wrote:
Thing is, the whole scene, beginning in the bedroom, continuing with the dream, the desperation of the neighbor, the slightly annoyed tone between the couple...nothing speaks to me of a jokey setup. As Vhanja already said, there's a tension that can be cut with a knife.

There was NO tention between John and Mary at the start of HLV!!! ... imagine I said that without shouting.

**Posted by SusiGo** March 10, 2015 12:31 pm

I subscribe to the tension/knife theory. So if there is tension, IMO this could mean two things:
- John has started talking about Sherlock only after the wedding and blabbed on about his friend during their honeymoon until Mary got fed up with it.
- John has always talked about Sherlock and Mary just takes the opportunity to hurt Sherlock at the wedding by implying that Sholto is more interesting to John.

**Posted by mrshouse** March 10, 2015 1:35 pm

The blabbing in the honeymoon is supported by the comments on the blog.

**Posted by tonnaree** March 10, 2015 1:48 pm

I would've been a tiny bit irritated if my hubby had spent time blogging on our honeymoon.

**Posted by SusiGo** March 10, 2015 2:16 pm

Really?

And Sherlock is also getting texts from John.

**Posted by tonnaree** March 10, 2015 2:21 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Really?

And Sherlock is also getting texts from John.

Well, ya know, they are best bros.

**Posted by SolarSystem** March 11, 2015 5:28 am

I always thought that Mary's "See? That does happen" was a mixture of everything that has been mentioned here by all of you. In my headcanon John has indeed been talking a lot about Sherlock after the wedding, to a point that he was getting on Mary's nerves. And maybe Mary has come to realize (although I think that she must have been aware of this already) that she would always have to share John with Sherlock. And John probably didn't just talk about Sherlock, he might have been nervous and twitchy because yes, he missed Sherlock. So neighbour Kate is the chance for Mary to go "See, it's not just about Sherlock, get over it".

I still wonder about Mary being so determined to come to the drug den with John. It's a bit like a gradual development: In TEH and TSoT she manipulated the boys into spending time together, then in TSoT she followed them to Sholto's room, and now in HLV she is absolutely determined to accompany John. She can't know that Sherlock will be at the drug den... or can she? Does she know about his investigations into CAM already? Is she alert? Is that the reason why she wants to go there with John, in order to keep an eye on Sherlock? (Did we talk about this already in another thread?)

**Posted by mrshouse** March 11, 2015 7:21 am

I can't remember it having been discussed. I don't think she could know about Sherlock, I couldn't figure out how. I think from the very tense beginning in the Watson flat to the drug den that wasn't really about Sherlock. She certainly was alerted because of CAM. And the whole arc leading up to the drug den was supposed to slowly slowly prepare the audience for the big reveal.

**Posted by SolarSystem** March 11, 2015 7:26 am

Hm. I know this is not really about Mary, but what bothers me about HLV are all those coincidences. There certainly is more than one place in London where people do drugs, but of course Sherlock is lying right beside John's neighbour (does Sherlock know he's John's neighbour?). And then the evening in CAM's office. Of course Mary is there the exact minute that Sherlock and John are there, too. Is it just me, or is that a bit too much of a coincidence?

**Posted by mrshouse** March 11, 2015 7:30 am

Well, yes, we talked about some incongruences in this particular episode. Hubby never watched HLV a second time because he didn't really liked those holes in the screen writing and logic build up.