BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Lestrade is Mycroft's informant.

**Posted by Sherlockismyfix** July 31, 2014 7:28 pm

It came to me recently that Lestrade must be the one who keeps Mycroft informed of Sherlock's activities.

We know from the first episode that Mycroft is in the habit of inducing people to spy on Sherlock for money: He tries to recruit Watson, who refuses. A little later Sherlock asks Watson if he was offered money to spy on him and doesn't seem at all surprised that it is so, even suggesting Watson should have accepted the offer and they could split the fee.

So obviously Mycroft has a pattern of this, and presumably not everyone is as noble as Watson. Indeed, although we are presented in the first episode with the impression that Mycroft is somehow omnipotent, we know that is not the case. So how DID Mycroft find out so quickly that John Watson was thinking of moving into 221B? He kidnaps John as soon as he leaves Lauriston Gardens. And again, how did he so quickly show up at the final scene after the cabbie was shot? Lestrade must have told him.

Sherlock is well aware of this setup, I think. In Hounds, he actually accuses Lestrade of showing up at Mycroft's bidding, and note that Lestrade does not deny it. However, I think Sherlock that although Sherlock is aware of the arrangement, he doesn't really mind that much (and maybe actually appreciates or at least accepts Mycroft's oversight?) as Lestrade is Sherlock's go-to copper, and in Baskerville, he lets his moment of outrage pass and makes use of Lestrade's presence there.

I've tried to think this through, and I don't see who else has the kind of information Mycroft wants. Mrs. Hudson wouldn't particularly be aware of Sherlock's activities, and Anderson and Donovan wouldn't know enough to be helpful either.

Thoughts?

**Posted by Liberty** July 31, 2014 7:53 pm

That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure that Mycroft actually did plan to use John as a spy, though. Maybe he was just testing him out? And John passed the test. Mycroft seems to trust him after that. And LeStrade seems so open with Sherlock that I find it hard to think of him secretly spying, especially if it's for money. You're right, though, it makes sense. (Although, I imagine Mycroft having a network).

**Posted by A lovely light** July 31, 2014 8:00 pm

Liberty wrote:
That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure that Mycroft actually did plan to use John as a spy, though. Maybe he was just testing him out? And John passed the test. Mycroft seems to trust him after that.

Hah, that is funny! This was exactly what i was preparing to write in the John-Mycroft subject (i write first in word as this forum eats my homwork to oft).

I think that Mycroft tested John at their first meeting and that without knowing, John passed the test. If Mycroft wanted just that John tell him what happens to his brother, he could have said who he is and he would have secured very easy John's help. But no, he tries to intimidated him with the phones and the mystery, is insulting John (The bravery of the soldier. Bravery is by far the kindest word for stupidity, don’t you think?), shows him that he knows his secrets. And the most important thing, he offers John money, when he knows very well that John struggles in this area. How important this was for the test, was for me clear in ASIB:
"MYCROFT: This is a matter of the highest security, and therefore of trust.
JOHN: You don’t trust your own Secret Service?
MYCROFT: Naturally not. They all spy on people for money."

**Posted by Ylse** July 31, 2014 8:03 pm

Mycroft may have exert pressure on Lestrade to know what he wanted to know on some occasions. After all, Lestrade is a state agent and has to answer if questioned by the "British government". But he wouldn't do that for money. I don't see him that way, at least. And I think that Mycroft asked John to spy on Sherlock for money only to see what kind of man he was. If he had accepted, Mycroft would rather have find a way to rid Sherlock of him than really use him.
Besides, I don't think that Sherlock would take it that easy if Lestrade was Mycroft's regular informer. He obviously hates the way Mycroft always keeps an eye on him, always tries to control his life.
I think that Mycroft can have as many informers as he wants in the police. And clever as he is, he can get easily any information he wants from people in Sherlock's surroundings, by manipulating them, or frightening them, or convincing them they do it for the best. Maybe he knew about Sherlock's new roommate by Mike Stamford ? Or Donovan, or Anderson ?

**Posted by maryagrawatson** July 31, 2014 8:13 pm

I think that the Mycroft-Lestrade relationship is perfectly well explained in this exchange from THOB:

Sherlock: Oh, this is Mycroft, isn't it?
Lestrade: Oh, look...
Sherlock: Oh, of course it is. One mention of Baskerville and he sends down my handler to spy on me incognito.
(snip)
Lestrade: Look, I'm not your handler and I don't do what your brother tells me.

Sherlock sees Lestrade has his handler as per Mycroft's instructions. Sherlock tends to exaggerate things when it comes to the rivalry with his brother, but even so, this clearly shows that Mycroft uses Greg to keep an eye on Sherlock and keep him out of trouble.

I don't think we've ever seen Mycroft and Lestrade interact on the show, but there's obviously lots of it going on behind the scenes.

Mary

**Posted by SusiGo** July 31, 2014 8:19 pm

Well, Lestrade seems to know about Sherlock's past drug habit. So it is quite possible that Mycroft used him to keep informed about his brother (apart from employing his various MI6 channels, etc.).

**Posted by Sherlockismyfix** July 31, 2014 11:07 pm

maryagrawatson wrote:
I think that the Mycroft-Lestrade relationship is perfectly well explained in this exchange from THOB:

Sherlock: Oh, this is Mycroft, isn't it?
Lestrade: Oh, look...
Sherlock: Oh, of course it is. One mention of Baskerville and he sends down my handler to spy on me incognito.
(snip)
Lestrade: Look, I'm not your handler and I don't do what your brother tells me.

Sherlock sees Lestrade has his handler as per Mycroft's instructions. Sherlock tends to exaggerate things when it comes to the rivalry with his brother, but even so, this clearly shows that Mycroft uses Greg to keep an eye on Sherlock and keep him out of trouble.

I don't think we've ever seen Mycroft and Lestrade interact on the show, but there's obviously lots of it going on behind the scenes.

Mary

Thanks for finding that quote. Yes, that is the exchange that made me wonder about Lestrade's role. Agreed Sherlock is at his most childish when it comes to Mycroft, but he has a point here. WHY DID LESTRADE SHOW UP IN BASKERVILLE - if Mycroft didn't send him??? Who else besides Mycroft even knew he was there?

Also, much as I like Lestrade, he's a cop, and they are notoriously underpaid. I don't think he's dishonest, per se, but I don't think he would see any harm in accepting a little "thanks" for helping Mycroft keep tabs on Sherlock.

**Posted by maryagrawatson** July 31, 2014 11:35 pm

Hmm, I never considered that Mycroft might be paying Lestrade! I don't know if British police officers do some moonlighting as security guards and such, but that's what I'd consider this to be since Sherlock knows what's going on. I wouldn't consider Lestrade to be 'on the take' or anything with a negative connotation.

My head canon is that Lestrade met Sherlock after Sherlock got picked up for a drug related offense and has had paternal feelings for him ever since.

Mary

**Posted by Sherlockismyfix** August 1, 2014 3:08 pm

Mary, I think you're right. I think it is clear that Lestrade has considerable affection as well as respect for Sherlock.

He's not intimidated by him, and he doesn't mind looking past Sherlock's off-putting behavior, while being willing, like John, to call him on his childish behavior (Well, I'm dealing with a child! SIP). He calls in Sherlock on his most difficult cases, he sides with Sherlock even to the chagrin of his own staff (Anderson, your back. Now!), he shows up at Baker Street for Christmas, and the hug he gives Sherlock in TEH is absolutely heartfelt.

I do like Lestrade and the warmth he brings to the relationship. One of the many elements that makes this show great.

**Posted by maryagrawatson** August 1, 2014 3:27 pm

Sherlockismyfix wrote:
the hug he gives Sherlock in TEH is absolutely heartfelt.

Oh, that hug! Talk about speaking volumes. He grabs Sherlock, squeezes, holds on tightly, and then nuzzles him. And does Sherlock say stop it or try to get out of it? No. He lets it happen. Those two care about each other very, very much.

Mary

**Posted by Liberty** August 1, 2014 4:54 pm

Oh yes! I love LeStrade and love his relationship with Sherlock. That hug is one of my favourite things in all the episodes. Sherlock approaches all of the three (John, Mrs Hudson, LeStrade) in awkward ways when he returns, but LeStrade is just so delighted to see him. In TRF, I feel LeStrade completely trusts Sherlock despite all the evidence against him. He has to reluctantly follow procedure, but he's happy to let Sherlock escape.

I have still to watch the last two episodes (saving them!), but I watched the very beginning of TSOT last night and loved LeStrade even more when he was prepared to give up everything he'd worked for (and even his reputation) just to save Sherlock. Of course he respects his abilities and finds him useful, but he deeply cares for him too.

That's why I find it difficult to accept him taking money for spying on Sherlock. But maybe it's not to do with money at all. Maybe it's just because he cares that he's helping Mycroft (who also cares). They're just working together to protect him.

**Posted by Ylse** August 3, 2014 8:56 pm

I agree. Lestrade obviously cares a lot for Sherlock.And so does Sherlock. When Moriary says him that he intends to target the three persons he cares for, he knows immediately that Lestrade is among them. I think it's impossible to imagine that Lestrade would spy on Sherlock for money. And I don't think Mycroft would ever ask for this anyway. He wants his brother to have people he can trust around him.
But Lestrade may have informed Mycroft in several occasions, either because, as an state agent, he had to obey Mycroft's orders, either because he thought it was for the best, for example if Sherlock had used drugs. And Lestrade's presence in Baskerville certainly can't be a coincidence. It seems a very plausible explanation that Sherlock is right and that Mycroft sent him to keep an eye on his brother. Lestrade is willing to keep him out of trouble anyway.
But of course, Sherlock hates it. His supicion, not always false, that Lestrade sometimes informs Mycroft could explain why he feigns not to remember Lestrade's first name (it seems quite impossible that he would genuinely forget it all the time), and why he often adresses him snarky or ironic comments(whereas with John he avoids it as much as he can), in spite of the fact that he considers him a friend. He cares for Lestrade, but can't help seeing him somehow, either as an authority figure himself, or as an agent of the authority figure he resents the most, Mycroft.

**Posted by La Jolie** August 5, 2014 6:13 pm

Ylse wrote:
But of course, Sherlock hates it. His supicion, not always false, that Lestrade sometimes informs Mycroft could explain why he feigns not to remember Lestrade's first name (it seems quite impossible that he would genuinely forget it all the time), and why he often adresses him snarky or ironic comments(whereas with John he avoids it as much as he can), in spite of the fact that he considers him a friend. He cares for Lestrade, but can't help seeing him somehow, either as an authority figure himself, or as an agent of the authority figure he resents the most, Mycroft.

I believe this is an excellent analysis. I can't see Lestrade taking money from Mycroft, one, because he's a very decent man, and two - more importantly - because he certainly doesn't need such a mundane incentive. He cares, and he knows that Mycroft cares, so they team up in looking after Sherlock. It's as simple as that.

It also fits in with what Lestrade says in THOB: "I don't do what your brother tells me." I don't think he's lying there, I don't think he's subordinate to Mycroft in that way, he doesn't take orders from him. They collaborate. That's a big difference (though maybe not in Sherlock's eyes).

And it does explain Sherlock's strangely ambivalent treatment of Lestrade. Thanks for pointing that out and putting it so well. He truly likes (and esteems) Lestrade, but then he really isn't very nice to him at times. "You're a detective - of sorts..." (TSOT). Honestly, there must be a reason for that sort of behaviour. I think your interpretation is spot on - there is a part of Lestrade he dislikes, and that must be that paternal, not to say patronising, streak.

Sheesh, I'd love a prequel about how those two met, and in what circumstances.

Btw The Hug in TEH, did Lestrade know at that point that Sherlock was alive? Was it all over the news already? Or was it a genuine surprise? In that case, he's certainly not as surprised as he should have been...

And another btw, I think the thing about Lestrade's first name is really getting ridiculous. I may believe that Sherlock truly didn't know it until THOB (because he never bothered to find out), and I may believe that he still got it wrong once or twice afterwards, either accidentally (still not thinking it's relevant) or on purpose (wanting to annoy Lestrade), but the way he comes up with "Gavin" as late as in TSOT is just laughable.

Last edited by La Jolie (August 5, 2014 6:15 pm)