Well said. Because it was not only dependent on choosing the right entry point of the bullet. There were lots of other aspects involved she could not influence. 

SusiGo wrote:

Well said. Because it was not only dependent on choosing the right entry point of the bullet. There were lots of other aspects involved she could not influence. 

Yes, and I think we can all agree that Sherlock´s survival was as close as it gets, even with every aspect working in his favour. So if that indeed was her plan, it was a really risky one. A user called Willow pointed out to me some time ago that a person returning to life after flatlining long enough to be considered dead is indeed a known medical phenomenon called "Lazarus syndrome". It is extremely rare, it has been noted 38 times worldwide since 1982, so it´s completely statistically insignificant. No one could have counted on this to happen. Everything in Mary´s "plan to save him" went right, and yet what saved him in the end was a medical miracle that happens in like 0.0000001 % of all cases. So thank you for providing that 0.0000001% chance, Mary, you´re a true lifesaver..

Last edited by Zatoichi (September 8, 2014 11:07 pm)

Zatoichi wrote:

So thank you for providing that 0.0000001% chance, Mary, you´re a true lifesaver..
 

I just said it at the Mary's choice thread:
I fail to understand how it is okay for Mary to shoot Sherlock (not her fault, she was programmed and he took a step in her direction, and she only shot him a litte so he survived), but not okay for John to beat Sherlock at the reunion (he is an agressive man who will most likely beat baby Watson one day).
 

Yes, very different situations and it's difficult to compare, I think.  Mary's violence is cold-blooded - it's a rational decision to remove an obstacle in her way and protect herself.  (And yes, she could have chosen a non-violent option, but didn't).  She has no desire to inflict pain on Sherlock - that's incidental - and it's not aimed at him personally.  John's violence is hot-blooded.  He isn't defending himself.  There isn't any rational decision.  It's aimed at Sherlock, personally, and he wants to hurt him. 

In terms of future violence, I suppose we know that Mary could be violent if she's threatened enough and sees it as the most useful solution, and John could be violent if he was angry enough. 

I just can't see Mary's violence having anything in common with domestic violence.   It doesn't feel familiar to me.  The only thing that does seem like domestic violence is that her death threats give her control.   That's the aspect that missing in the situation with John - he isn't using violence as a means to control, and he isn't controlling outside of the violence.   (As I've said before, I'm only talking about his behaviour in those scenes at the restaurant, and possibly also the confrontation in HLV.  I don't think the character is written as an abuser). 

I'm not saying one is worse than the other - Mary's violence is clearly worse because she does more damage.  But that one feels like domestic violence and the other doesn't.

Last edited by Liberty (September 9, 2014 6:01 am)

That's one way of looking at it, Liberty.
I see it this way: Mary makes a conscious decision, she decides to shoot Sherlock with her brain. She gives a 'warning' and then shoots. John on the other hand is guided by his heart, he doesn't make a conscious decision because he can't really think straight. He is overcome with emotion, shock and disbelief.
 

silverblaze wrote:

As much as I liked Willow and hope she'll come back one day, I do think she really overestimated the Moftiss' knowledge of medical statistics. I don't think they went for the lazarus sydrome but used the old flatline trope that you see in so (too) many films and tv shows. Instead, I believe that Moffat just googled types of gunshot wounds that were relatively easy to survive and settled for a liver injury.  

I don´t know, they really seem to like their "Lazarus" (I´ve heard Moffat uses it in Doctor Who, too), maybe they´ve heard about the syndrome. But whatever they did, they showed he didn´t survive easily but it was very close, cost him a huge effort and was mainly motivated by the thought of John. You are right, it could have been only for storytelling purposes, to increase the drama, to show the mind palace sequence and show Sherlock hit rock bottom and isn´t to be taken too seriously.. but until I´m shown in S4 that they were (again ^^) just playing around a bit I´ll stick to my theory that Mary is an antagonist.
 

Last edited by Zatoichi (September 9, 2014 5:02 pm)

Molly's violence, LOL! 
I feel like Mrs Hudson now, after her talking with Molly about Sherlock being the best man! 

Sorry, back to my sofa 

Last edited by Harriet (September 9, 2014 9:27 pm)

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

I think it's also important to remember that Mary and Sherlock were supposed to be freinds, when she shot him-- and yes, that was a kill shot. Sherlock freaking planned her wedding! 

She shot him anyway, knowing that there was very, very good chance that he would not survive it. 

And it's not like Sherlock makes friends easily. I think this is part of what makes me so sad every time I think of it.
Thanks for pointing it out again.

Yes, she gives the message that she will kill him if he crosses her.  Three times - when she shoots him, in the hospital and at Leinster Gardens.  He didn't live because of Mary's surgery, but in spite of it - I really don't hope they expect us to accept that as anything other than an explanation Sherlock is giving to fool Mary. 

I'm going off topic a bit here, but what do you think John believes?  He's the doctor.  The explanation doesn't make sense.  Does he believe it?  (In fact, is the explanation partly for John's benefit? Because he might not accept Mary back otherwise?).   Does he see through it and still accept Mary back?  Does he just not want to know?

Zatoichi wrote:

I really hope that at the end of HLV he´s in on a plan Sherlock has.. a plan they worked out in the months between the confrontation and christmas. Because I know that else I´ll have a very hard time silencing my brain while trying to enjoy the next series..

This!