Posted by Ylse  July 16, 2014 10:11 pm | #1 |
Hi ! I discovered recently the series, and I'm completely hooked, I watched all the episodes in a row.
I wonder a lot about Mycroft's character since his discussion with Sherlock in the Empty Hearse . He is a self-confessed loner, hating human contacts (meeting other children was for him such an apalling experionce that he can't even figure why his parents wanted it). He constantly repeats to Sherlock not to get involved. He despises people so much as inferior beings that he feels like he's surrounded by "goldfishes" (what a horrible feeling it would be).
And in spite of that, he holds a position of power, he is that all-mighty "eminence grise" of the British government. It implies that contrary to his brother, he knows how to adjust his behaviour to get along with other people, even poweful, difficult ones. Does that mean that he only knows very well "goldfishes"' nature, and how he can manipulate them ? I wonder if the gap between his complete lack of empathy and his capacity to get from people what he wants and reach the top doesn't make him closer to the definition of a sociopath than Sherlock. From what I've read, a sociopath can be socially successful, he can even have charm, but his only focus is on himself and his own goals, he doesn't really care about anyone. Of course, Mycroft somehow cares about Sherlock. Does he care enough to jeopardize his career if it'd become necessary ? I'm not sure. And yet, strangely enough, he's not an unlikeable character, far from it, and I enjoyed a lot all the scenes with him.
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Posted by Liberty July 17, 2014 6:10 am | #2 |
I am still watching the series (slowly), so I haven't seen The Empty Hearse. But so far, I've found Mycroft such an interesting character (I'd love him to play a central role in an episode and to find out more about him). Yes, he's much more of a loner than Sherlock and more manipulative. I'm reluctant to call either of them a sociopath, particularly as I haven't seen all the episodes yet. (I know that Sherlock calls himself a sociopath, as an alternative to psychopath - I'm not sure why he does that though, but I wonder if he's joking - I don't think it's a word that tends to be used as a diagnosis).
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Posted by A lovely light July 17, 2014 7:50 am | #3 |
I love Mycroft-character. Brilliant, powerful. He understand much more as he says.
Somehow i see Sherlock between two poles. Watson on one side with all emotions and emotional decisions and Mycroft at the other side, all cleverness with intelligent cold decisions.
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Posted by Mattlocked July 17, 2014 10:05 am | #4 |
Liberty wrote:
... (I know that Sherlock calls himself a sociopath, as an alternative to psychopath - I'm not sure why he does that though, but I wonder if he's joking - I don't think it's a word that tends to be used as a diagnosis).
Wait until you've seen all episodes. Maybe you find out. 
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"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
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Posted by besleybean July 17, 2014 10:33 am | #5 |
I think through the 3 series already we have seen both Mycroft and Sherlock think they are different from( and superior to)most other people and therefore find it difficult to get on with others and accept the behaviour of other people.
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Posted by Liberty July 17, 2014 5:17 pm | #6 |
... (I know that Sherlock calls himself a sociopath, as an alternative to psychopath - I'm not sure why he does that though, but I wonder if he's joking - I don't think it's a word that tends to be used as a diagnosis).
Wait until you've seen all episodes. Maybe you find out.
Oh, I'm so glad they explain it! (As I think you're hinting). It grated when I frist heard it. It seems so unlikely that somebody would have "high-functioning sociopath" as a diagnosis - but Sherlock saying "do your research" suggests that it is an actual diagnosis he was given, and that it's publicly available. My guess is that if he really did have that diagnosis that he was given it at a very young age.
I like the idea of Sherlock being between two poles. Although Mycroft does have his warmer side when it comes to Sherlock (I think), and John also has rather "cold" side (his excitement about death and danger?). They are such interesting characters.
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Posted by Marta July 17, 2014 11:06 pm | #7 |
Somehow i see Sherlock between two poles. Watson on one side with all emotions and emotional decisions and Mycroft at the other side, all cleverness with intelligent cold decisions.
I agree. I think it's clearly visible when Sherlock says "not you" to Mycroft in his Mind Palace and turns to John. Enough puzzle solving and cold thinking, it's time for human contact, action and life saving.
I also agree with Liberty's words about John not being always warm and Mycroft not being always the Iceman.
Does that mean that he only knows very well "goldfishes"' nature, and how he can manipulate them ? I wonder if the gap between his complete lack of empathy and his capacity to get from people what he wants and reach the top doesn't make him closer to the definition of a sociopath than Sherlock.
I think so. We can see on the show that Sherlock isn't a sociopath; he sometimes acts like one but he experiences emotions for the most of time, he just often decides to supress them. Mycroft seems to be far less emotional than Sherlock. He knows a lot about human nature but it's probably a "useful knowledge", not empathy. I'm not sure if he's a sociopath though.
Does he care enough to jeopardize his career if it'd become necessary ? I'm not sure.
That's an interesting question. I'm not sure either. But it's possible, I think.
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Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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Posted by Ylse July 18, 2014 7:01 am | #8 |
Liberty wrote:
It seems so unlikely that somebody would have "high-functioning sociopath" as a diagnosis - but Sherlock saying "do your research" suggests that it is an actual diagnosis he was given, and that it's publicly available. My guess is that if he really did have that diagnosis that he was given it at a very young age.
I don't think it could have been said to him as a medical diagnosis. He's definitley not a sociopath as he's able to sacrifice himself for people he loves. I'd rather think that he decided to define himself like that to be done with other people's reproaches about his behaviour (I mean, what can they say after that ? Anderson is speechless). He may have been more or less convinced of the truth of it for a long time. But what is so interesting as well in his conversation with Mycroft in the Empty Hearse is that he seems to have realised, thanks to John, that someone who is, and feels different from the others can nonetheless not be isolated.
Marta wrote:
Mycroft seems to be far less emotional than Sherlock. He knows a lot about human nature but it's probably a "useful knowledge", not empathy. I'm not sure if he's a sociopath though.
I don't think that Mycroft is really a sociopath either. From what I've read, these people can't really adjust to society on the long run. What I mean is that he has more of the characteristics of a sociopath than Sherlock. He seems to never feel any emotion, not even when he sees Sherlock in such a state from having fallen in the hands of these Serbians.
Now about if Mycrof would jeopardize his carrer for Sherlock, the reasons why I'm not sure is the end of His Last Vow. He actually sends him on a death mission, explaining that it's the only rational thing to do. And he says he won't be hindered by fraternal compassion, reminding as a proof what happened to the "other one" (what happened, by the way ? I hope we'll know).
I like the character nonetheless. I enjoy his sharp humour and he's very interesting and complex.
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Posted by besleybean July 18, 2014 7:21 am | #9 |
The alternative was to have Sherlock the murderer imprisoned for life...at least he stood a chance on the proposed mission.
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Posted by Ylse July 18, 2014 8:37 am | #10 |
The alternative was to have Sherlock the murderer imprisoned for life...at least he stood a chance on the proposed mission.
A man as powerful as Mycrof is could have just made his brother disappear from the radar, I suppose. But it may have put his career in jeopardy, as Sherlock had killed Magnussen in front of many people. Lady Smallwood says that the decision is "hardly merciful". And what happened to the "other one" (meaning "other brother" I suppose) ? I hope we'll have some explanation about that cryptic remark later on.
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Posted by Marta July 18, 2014 1:27 pm | #11 |
Liberty wrote:
He seems to never feel any emotion, not even when he sees Sherlock in such a state from having fallen in the hands of these Serbians.
He did when Sherlock shot Magnussen - his face when he says "Do not fire on Sherlock Holmes" and then "Sherlock, what have you done?" tells us that he cares about his brother. He was in panic when Sherlock's life was in danger.
Now about if Mycrof would jeopardize his carrer for Sherlock, the reasons why I'm not sure is the end of His Last Vow. He actually sends him on a death mission, explaining that it's the only rational thing to do. And he says he won't be hindered by fraternal compassion, reminding as a proof what happened to the "other one"
I agree. However, Mycroft could have had a rescue plan for Sherlock. And he said all these words to keep his position and power because without it, he wouldn't be able to save him.
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Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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Posted by silverblaze August 28, 2014 5:47 pm | #12 |
Actually, the terms 'sociopath' and 'psychopath' don't mean anything. Psychiatric terminology refers to those types of people as antisocial personality disorder (APD), or possibly narsicisitic personality disorder (NPD) but neither Sherlock nor Mycroft fall in those categories. They might have some subclinical narcissist traits, though, in blowing up ego in order to mask insecurity, but they'd have that in common with a large segment of the human population.
When I try to understand Mycroft, I just look at Sherlock, Mycroft has a calmer temperament and a more manipulative streak, but other than that they're pretty similar.
