Posted by nakahara July 3, 2014 10:15 pm | #21 |
I still think the new dramatic events in S4 will probably revolve around Mary. The action in S3 kind of set her up for a role and the plot involving wife having harmful secrets that hurt her husband or family appears quite a lot in the original stories of AC Doyle. Strange for a happily married man, but he certainly loved this plot device a lot (there are other stories that I have not yet mentioned, like "The Veiled Lodger" and "The Greek Interpreter" that also toy with the idea). So such thing would be canon-compliant at the same time.
I remember now that S3 revealed some parts of the past of Mrs Hudson that weren´t so pleasant either. So it might also be that it will be her past that comes to haunt our heroes.
The surprise we don´t await can be also positive and not a negative one. For example, Mary having another child from her previous marriage and John being confronted with the fact would be certainly surprising - nobody thought about such possibility yet.
Posted by maryagrawatson July 4, 2014 1:38 am | #22 |
Rewatching HLV the other night, I realised that Mummy Holmes knows a lot about combustion and thought it was an interesting coincidence that John was put in a bonfire that Magnussen claimed to have control over. Red herring or might there be more Mummy in series four?
Mary
Posted by SherlocklivesinOH July 4, 2014 2:50 am | #23 |
MartaSt wrote:
I really want to know how they are going to deal with Sherlock being murderer. Because according to law he is criminal now. What producers will do about that fact? And I'm also wondering about both Sherlock's and John's feelings about this. We know that Magnussen was evil but that was all in all murder. I really want to know if Sherlock will have some remorse. I know that he is not like normal human being but we saw his change in season 3 so I wonder how this affect his life. Maybe this dark twist is Sherlock being haunted by guilt.
I actually kind of wondered why the British government treated Sherlock as a murderer in this instance of killing CAM (whom they all hated), when it's really not that much of a stretch. If he was on an M16 mission in Serbia for the two years he was away, he's pretty much a "James Bond" for them, which is not THAT far removed from an "A.G.R.A." I am sure the British government employes people like Mary...
And speaking of Serbia, and "dark twists," I would think Sherlock would be experiencing some sort of emotional trauma or fallout from his experiences there. I don't think we saw obvious signs of that in S3. Even in the mind palace scenes, I don't think he flashed back to Serbia.
But given that the British government did criminally punish Sherlock for CAM, it kind of made me feel like we were back to the end of S2, where a villain set Sherlock up to be in disgrace. CAM may not have planned it, but it felt like him winning after all. EXCEPT - don't forget that all the time we thought Moriarty was destroying Sherlock's reputation and bringing him down, all along it was all part of the Holmes' brothers plan to bring down Moriarty. So I somehow feel they must have similar aces up their sleeves with regards to CAM. I feel that if we just leave it there, with Sherlock having committed a murder, it's a victory for CAM and, indirectly, Moriarty.
Someone raised the possibility of CAM asking Sherlock to help him fake his death. I can't believe CAM never feared being murdered if he was blackmailing people like Mary.
Maybe the gun contained, not a real bullet, but a variation on Wiggins' drug, in bullet form, so CAM could be tranquilized? Maybe Sherlock said, "you can play dead and then run away," but then set it up so CAM would end up in custody.
Or, maybe there was a fake shooting planned, (with or without CAM's complicity), but someone then switched real bullets into the gun? I even had the crazy idea that the "CAM" walking around was a robot, or that the Sherlock at Appledore was an impostor. (I've really caught the Mofftis bug now!)
I thought maybe the Smallwoods killed CAM before the final scenes, and used his body to fake Lord Smallwood's suicide...but that doesn't get around the fact that Sherlock shot SOMEBODY at Appledore. Someone said maybe there was another shot at the same time, that did the real killing?
I wonder if the MPs staged the trial of Sherlock because there was someone else involved with CAM's operation that they wanted to lull into a false sense of security.
Much as I would rather ship Sherlock with John than either Janine or THE woman, I can't help wondering if one of them staged Moriarty's return to help him out (or maybe both of them together - I can believe they're connected somehow.) I think Janine might have been grateful to be free of CAM. Irene might not have such objections to things CAM did...she did a lot of the same...but she might have felt she owed it to Sherlock to save him...or be trying for another "chance" with him.
Posted by maryagrawatson July 4, 2014 3:30 am | #24 |
SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
And speaking of Serbia, and "dark twists," I would think Sherlock would be experiencing some sort of emotional trauma or fallout from his experiences there. I don't think we saw obvious signs of that in S3. Even in the mind palace scenes, I don't think he flashed back to Serbia.
I actually find it quite plausible that for Sherlock, it's not the worst thing that's happened to him from a psychological point of view, it's in the past, it's buried deep in his memories, and he's moved on. What bothers him more is the realisation of just how much he hurt John and then trying to make up for that, which is what motivates everything he does in series three.
I wonder if the MPs staged the trial of Sherlock because there was someone else involved with CAM's operation that they wanted to lull into a false sense of security.
There is no evidence that the Crown charged Sherlock, much less that he had a trial. It seems more like a private deal was made to avoid official prosecution. I work peripherally in law enforcement in Canada, which has a similar legal system as Britain (as it was based on theirs), and I've seen deals like these made. They also exist in the U.S. legal system. The court systems are backed up, Crown prosecutors are overworked, and there's also the issue of avoiding turning the trial into a media circus. Cutting a private deal that Sherlock goes undercover effectively punishes him, offers swift justice, and keeps things out of the public eye.
As for Janine, I'm convinced she's Moriarty's sister and the author of the letter Sherlock received at the beginning of The Great Game. The handwriting was definitely feminine and too fluid to have come from a coerced hand. There were two Moriarities in the original Holmes stories and I wouldn't put it past Moftiss to have made this idea their own and made the other Moriartity a female. The similarity of the names Janine and James combined with the Irish accents and dark features is all very suspicious.
Mary
Posted by Stonker July 4, 2014 4:46 am | #25 |
maryagrawatson wrote:
As for Janine, I'm convinced she's Moriarty's sister and the author of the letter Sherlock received at the beginning of The Great Game. The handwriting was definitely feminine and too fluid to have come from a coerced hand. There were two Moriarities in the original Holmes stories and I wouldn't put it past Moftiss to have made this idea their own and made the other Moriartity a female. The similarity of the names Janine and James combined with the Irish accents and dark features is all very suspicious.
love this theory. I was always struck at the similarity in their accents, brown eyes, Janine,/Jim, chemistry with Sherlock, uncertain backgrounds, etc.
Posted by Schmiezi July 4, 2014 4:49 am | #26 |
maryagrawatson wrote:
There were two Moriarities in the original Holmes stories (...)
Seriously? Mentioned where? I completely missed that. Need to read canon again soon.
BTW I love everything you suggested, nakahara. The stories you mentioned make a good reading list for the summer holidays.
Last edited by Schmiezi (July 4, 2014 4:50 am)
Posted by tobeornot221b July 4, 2014 4:56 am | #27 |
Schmiezi wrote:
maryagrawatson wrote:
There were two Moriarities in the original Holmes stories (...)
Seriously? Mentioned where?
Yes, there are two Moriartys - if not three:
"The stories give contradictory indications about Moriarty's family. In his first appearance in "The Final Problem", Moriarty is referred to as "Professor Moriarty" — no forename is mentioned. Watson does, however, refer to the name of another family member when he writes of "the recent letters in which Colonel James Moriarty defends the memory of his brother". In "The Adventure of the Empty House", Holmes refers to Moriarty on one occasion as "Professor James Moriarty". This is the only time Moriarty is given a first name, and oddly, it is the same as that of his purported brother; to wit The Valley of Fear (written after the preceding two stories, but set earlier), Holmes says of Professor Moriarty: "He is unmarried. His younger brother is a station master in the west of England."[12]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Moriarty
Posted by SolarSystem July 4, 2014 7:23 am | #28 |
Concerning Mary, I don't think it can get any darker and more twisted than it already did. I certainly don't want to see a child from her previous life or any such thing. The huge twist of S3 was about Mary, so I don't think a "dark twist" in S4 will involve her yet again. Of course they somehow need to 'deal' with Mary and her past, but I hope that the main focus will be somewhere else.
For me a very dark twist would be Moriarty being "the other one" and Mycroft and his mother knowing about this and covering it up for years. When Sherlock finds out... well... I have no idea about the why and how yet, but I certainly would love it.
Posted by besleybean July 4, 2014 7:36 am | #29 |
Yes Solar, I would too.
As long as he's still alive!
But I still wonder if this baby is John's...
Posted by MartaSt July 4, 2014 8:44 am | #30 |
Why shouldn't this child be John's? Ok, Mary has lied to him about her past but that doesn't mean that she was laying to him in every case. All in all she loves John and she tried to do everything to make him happy so what would be the point of cheating to John about their baby?
Posted by SolarSystem July 4, 2014 8:50 am | #31 |
Well, to make John stay with her? It could indeed be another deduction about her that Sherlock got wrong, and Mary certainly has the means and knowledge to fake all sorts of data about her pregnancy.
But I do suspect this might be one of the few things she did indeed not lie about to John.
Posted by gently69 July 4, 2014 8:52 am | #32 |
SolarSystem wrote:
For me a very dark twist would be Moriarty being "the other one" and Mycroft and his mother knowing about this and covering it up for years. When Sherlock finds out... well... I have no idea about the why and how yet, but I certainly would love it.
Oh yes, that could be interesting.
@Marta
Mary tried everything to make John happy? Well strange way she did ...
Posted by MartaSt July 4, 2014 8:55 am | #33 |
Gently: well, people do crazy things because of love
Posted by gently69 July 4, 2014 9:01 am | #34 |
Right, that convinces me, Marta.
Posted by besleybean July 4, 2014 9:22 am | #35 |
Yep, like commit murder.
Posted by SolarSystem July 4, 2014 9:24 am | #36 |
gently69 wrote:
SolarSystem wrote:
For me a very dark twist would be Moriarty being "the other one" and Mycroft and his mother knowing about this and covering it up for years. When Sherlock finds out... well... I have no idea about the why and how yet, but I certainly would love it.
Oh yes, that could be interesting.
@Marta
Mary tried everything to make John happy? Well strange way she did ...
I think first and foremost she tried everything to make herself happy.
Posted by MartaSt July 4, 2014 10:11 am | #37 |
To some extent most people in the world try to make happy themselves in the first place I just can't think of Mary as a bad person. I think she is just lost. She did terrible things in her past, finally she found happines and peace with John, and when she thought that she will spend rest of her life like that her past came back. So, to some extent, I don't blame her that she was trying to keep her happines, even when she was doing it in hmm... not ordinary way.
Posted by besleybean July 4, 2014 11:02 am | #38 |
And in the end, she didn't kill CAM or Sherlock.
Last edited by besleybean (July 4, 2014 11:03 am)
Posted by gently69 July 4, 2014 11:04 am | #39 |
Okay, then definitely Sherlock is the bad one.
Posted by dartmoordoggers July 4, 2014 11:14 am | #40 |
30 seconds into the show every television in the country goes dark. And we spend the next 90 minutes listening to a criminal mastermind repeating the words 'Did you miss me?' over a blank screen.
And every one of us watches to the very end.