BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Mary's Death

**Posted by mrshouse** December 30, 2014 7:24 pm

Thanx

**Posted by besleybean** December 30, 2014 9:37 pm

No they're not.

**Posted by SolarSystem** December 30, 2014 9:47 pm

Don't trust IMDB. A few days ago it said in Tom Hiddleston's entry that he is rumoured to be in S4. And how believable is that?

**Posted by besleybean** December 30, 2014 9:50 pm

We can dream...

**Posted by Liberty** December 30, 2014 10:09 pm

mrshouse wrote:
Oh, okay, since you mentioned IMDB earlier already I tried to gain information there but to me it's not quite clear....
It says only such and such numbers of episodes and the years during which they are involved? What am I doing wrong?

You're in the right place, but you have to click on them, and then "full cast".

The special - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3845232/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

S4 - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3538760/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

But I wouldn't take it as gospel .

**Posted by ancientsgate** December 31, 2014 2:07 am

Vhanja wrote:
Dunno if it means anything, but Amanda is only billed to star in the special, not in the rest of S4. IF it means anything, it strengthens my theory that she will die in the special.

Wait a minute. So you think it's a real possibility that the writers will kill off Mary (and the baby!) during Christmas? Talk about angst! I can hear the hue and cry from the fans' ranks now!

I still don't think they'll kill her off, but I only think that because of the baby. I don't believe it'd be very PC of them to kill an innocent baby-- not only that, but John's innocent baby. The poor man has suffered enough. OTOH, I have no idea what the showrunners' plans are-- as AA said in that short interview, no one but the writers and the actors know.

As I've said already a gazillion times here on the forum, the problem is the baby. Sure, they could kill off Mary, or send her back to America for a life sentence in Leavenworth, or send a UFO to swoop her up and take her to the planet Zonar X-21, but where does that leave John's child?

**Posted by Vhanja** December 31, 2014 11:26 am

ancientsgate wrote:
Wait a minute. So you think it's a real possibility that the writers will kill off Mary (and the baby!) during Christmas? Talk about angst! I can hear the hue and cry from the fans' ranks now!

I still don't think they'll kill her off, but I only think that because of the baby. I don't believe it'd be very PC of them to kill an innocent baby-- not only that, but John's innocent baby. The poor man has suffered enough. OTOH, I have no idea what the showrunners' plans are-- as AA said in that short interview, no one but the writers and the actors know.

As I've said already a gazillion times here on the forum, the problem is the baby. Sure, they could kill off Mary, or send her back to America for a life sentence in Leavenworth, or send a UFO to swoop her up and take her to the planet Zonar X-21, but where does that leave John's child?

I know, it makes no sense. Perhaps it isn't John's child after all? No matter how this is solved, John is going to get seriously hurt. And that is why I think they will whatever horrible things they will do to Mary and/or the baby in the special, and let most of the grieving be done off-screen and let some time pass before Ep1, just like they did with TEH.

**Posted by lil** December 31, 2014 4:41 pm

Would be rather cool if the special had flashbacks or missing scenes from HlV at the start...the airport turnaround in the middle and the solutions to the coincidences and conundrums with Mary Moriarty @ baby before the end.
Series four could then commence .. idk after a time gap..with J@S back adventuring from 221b...and no mentions of plot holes lazy writing or shark surfing.

**Posted by Liberty** December 31, 2014 5:41 pm

Even if it's not John's child - expecting a baby for months and then losing it would be a bereavement, regardless of whether he's the biological father.

Yes, Lil, I would LOVE the special to explain HLV! And it would make sense to resolve it in that episode ... although they might want a cliffhanger.

**Posted by melissak334** January 4, 2015 5:23 am

What if they picked up the story when the baby was a bit older (1-2ish)? By that time the novelty would wear off. I genuinely think they could pull it off and just have them both kind of in the periephery.

To be honest, I think half the reason I don't want mary/baby to die is that I don't want to deal with any more John angst.
But I think the baby was written in for a reason. Maybe because they want more drama or maybe because they're actually planning on keeping it. If they do keep it, I think Mary has to be around because otherwise you have John raising the baby as a single parent (which leaves little room for gallivanting around with Sherlock). The baby has to move things forward rather than get in the way of Sherlock/John. John being tied to Mary via their baby even after Mary has broken things off romantically is sort of messy. Why would they plan to put Mary and the baby on a proverbial bus rthan just put Mary on the bus and skip the pregnancy entirely?

**Posted by besleybean** January 4, 2015 8:44 am

I would be quite interested to see and maybe able to accept...a special dealing with the' Mary/baby' thing, as in to get rid of them and then possibly S4 starting a few years on...
But I just don't see this happening.

**Posted by silverblaze** January 4, 2015 12:12 pm

Wow, there are so many good theories here.

The only thing I remember them saying is that if hey kill Mary, they wouldn't do it offscreen, like Doyle did, but they would do it in the story. I do believe them on that. They didn't say that they would kill her. Also, on the commentaries, they said that the line about Mary's death (tragic loss) could also be interpreted differently, like a divorce, or not even anything connected with Mary. So maybe, knowing that everyone expects her to die, they'll keep her around.

**Posted by Schmiezi** January 4, 2015 3:32 pm

silverblaze wrote:
So maybe, knowing that everyone expects her to die, they'll keep her around.

I hope they don't make important plot decisions only concerning how much it would surprise us.

**Posted by silverblaze** January 4, 2015 4:02 pm

Well, they do like to surprise people. But I agree, it's only canon fans who know that she dies and that's only a small percentage of the audience.

They surprised us last time,though, when everyone expected her to die in HLV. And then Mark's tweed made it worse. I'm just saying: it's their MO.

**Posted by ancientsgate** January 4, 2015 9:08 pm

silverblaze wrote:
............. So maybe, knowing that everyone expects her to die, they'll keep her around.

IMO they'll keep Mary around as long as AA wants the role. AA is family, and I think they won't kill off her character until AA says she's had enough. Just my pet theory, nothing I've heard anywhere.

**Posted by Ozma** January 11, 2015 6:15 pm

Amanda Abbington literally said 'we all know what happens to Mary Morstan so that's kind of inevitable' and also added that she knows how it happens. I mean.... really? Are we still doubting? That sounds pretty crystal clear to me!?

**Posted by Vhanja** January 11, 2015 6:16 pm

Ozma wrote:
Amanda Abbington literally said 'we all know what happens to Mary Morstan so that's kind of inevitable' and also added that she knows how it happens. I mean.... really? Are we still doubting? That sounds pretty crystal clear to me!?

Yeah, me too.

**Posted by mrshouse** January 11, 2015 6:18 pm

But....do we trust the team??

**Posted by Ozma** January 11, 2015 6:20 pm

Vhanja wrote:
mrshouse wrote:
Where did you get that information, Vhanja? Apparently she twittered how much she looks forward to the special and S4.
It's on IMDB. She is listed in the special, and Yasmine and Laura are listed on S4E01 and she isn't. Neither is she for the rest of the series.

Please don't take Imdb too seriously. It's populated by users, and Yasmine has probably been listed by someone who was hopeful for her return (or heard some bad rumour) because she wasn't at the read-through nor has mentioned anything about Sherlock on her twitter so I am 99% positive she isn't in it.

Last edited by Ozma (January 11, 2015 6:20 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** January 11, 2015 6:23 pm

But we are just on the special at the mo...the series comes later.