BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Mary's Death

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** August 20, 2014 5:51 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
I'm torn. On one hand, I think Mofftiss are professional--but I also think they may (forgive me, I know I'm sinning) think that because it's them making the decisions, they can make it work.
I probably should keep this to myself, but I'll just say it now: I'm not sure that casting Amanda in the first place has been all that professional - in most cases there is a casting process after which you choose the actor/actress who suits the role best. Of course they knew her before they cast her, and I suppose they knew what they were doing. I'm just not convinced that she was the best choice for the role.
But that's probably just me.
There, I've said it. I'll shut up now.

I agree-- for the purposes of the story TPTB were telling, I'm not sure she was best for t either. And part of that has to do with the fact that AA is MF's real life partner--so it's difficult for fans to remember that the roles they are playing are fictional. I think it skews the way we look at the characters-- their RL relationship may be in the way, a bit.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** August 20, 2014 6:19 pm

Beleive it or not, the idea that the part was specifically written to fit her into the show bothers me more, not less.

Okay-- here's me taking a b-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-g leap: am I the only person who thinks that part of the reason for Mary possibly becoming a long-term, principal charcter (which is where it looks like it's going) might be about squashing Johnlock? Apparently AA was and is rather miffed about it.
http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/sherlock_season_3_amanda_abbington_and_martin_freemans_not-wedding-2014-01

"=14pxWhat Abbington doesn't particularly like is the tendency of some rabid fans -- as alluded to in the premiere episode -- who insist on concocting a romantic relationship where none exists; as, for example, between Sherlock and John. It's especially worrisome to her when they make pictures of it and put them on the Internet. "It's one where you have to be very careful what you say to them," she says. "You have to be very careful of how you broach that. You can't be too critical ... you have to pretend that it's not out there. But it's on the Internet for everybody to see. It's a phenomenon; it really is. "I've seen some particularly explicit paintings of Martin and Ben. Let's not say it's John and Sherlock; it's Martin and Ben, because you don't see Basil Rathbone and his Watson. I don't think it's about the characters; it becomes about the actors. "It's just out there for everyone to see, and at some point, my son is going to want to Google his dad. It's the sort of thing where, just because you can doesn't mean you should. I had a diary when I was that age, and I wrote everything in my diary. The fact that you can now put it on the Internet and get really cross about it when people make a comment on it, it just makes me think, that's interesting. "Don't put it on the Internet, then, if you don't want somebody to comment on it. It's immediately accessible, and it's immediately public.""

This might be (partly) the reason why she won't be dying, anytime soon.

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (August 20, 2014 6:29 pm)

**Posted by besleybean** August 20, 2014 6:21 pm

Well they needed a Mary Morstan and I 1st said in Feb 2011, I thought it would be Amanda...that was when we thought she might appear in S2.

**Posted by SolarSystem** August 20, 2014 8:01 pm

Swanpride wrote:
Plus, those two actors have more than enough chemistry on screen.

That certainly lies in the eye of the beholder.

**Posted by Harriet** August 20, 2014 8:22 pm

I'd say in BBC Sherlock they have each a strong chemistry for themselves.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** August 20, 2014 8:26 pm

Harriet wrote:
I'd say in BBC Sherlock they have each a strong chemistry for themselves.

Neat way to put it, Harriet.

**Posted by besleybean** August 20, 2014 9:00 pm

Add to that all of Mark's hate mail from(some) Johnlockers.
Which is all a bit silly when we know that canonically Mary will die!

**Posted by SolarSystem** August 20, 2014 9:09 pm

I wasn't talking about any of this, and none of this has anything to do with the chemistry actors have or do not have on screen.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** August 20, 2014 9:32 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
I wasn't talking about any of this, and none of this has anything to do with the chemistry actors have or do not have on screen.

Sorry, my bad-- I didn't mean to go off on a tangent; I was trying to illustrate why I thought Mary would be staying awhile: nepotism and backlash against johnlock.

**Posted by SolarSystem** August 20, 2014 9:37 pm

I'm sorry, Raven, my post wasn't even addressed to you.

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** August 20, 2014 9:42 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
I'm sorry, Raven, my post wasn't even addressed to you.

Whew! (wipes brow, sheepishly) I thought I'd stepped in in it!

**Posted by Hera** August 21, 2014 7:03 pm

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
Beleive it or not, the idea that the part was specifically written to fit her into the show bothers me more, not less.

Okay-- here's me taking a b-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-g leap: am I the only person who thinks that part of the reason for Mary possibly becoming a long-term, principal charcter (which is where it looks like it's going) might be about squashing Johnlock? Apparently AA was and is rather miffed about it.
http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/sherlock_season_3_amanda_abbington_and_martin_freemans_not-wedding-2014-01

"=14pxWhat Abbington doesn't particularly like is the tendency of some rabid fans -- as alluded to in the premiere episode -- who insist on concocting a romantic relationship where none exists; as, for example, between Sherlock and John. It's especially worrisome to her when they make pictures of it and put them on the Internet. "It's one where you have to be very careful what you say to them," she says. "You have to be very careful of how you broach that. You can't be too critical ... you have to pretend that it's not out there. But it's on the Internet for everybody to see. It's a phenomenon; it really is. "I've seen some particularly explicit paintings of Martin and Ben. Let's not say it's John and Sherlock; it's Martin and Ben, because you don't see Basil Rathbone and his Watson. I don't think it's about the characters; it becomes about the actors. "It's just out there for everyone to see, and at some point, my son is going to want to Google his dad. It's the sort of thing where, just because you can doesn't mean you should. I had a diary when I was that age, and I wrote everything in my diary. The fact that you can now put it on the Internet and get really cross about it when people make a comment on it, it just makes me think, that's interesting. "Don't put it on the Internet, then, if you don't want somebody to comment on it. It's immediately accessible, and it's immediately public.""

This might be (partly) the reason why she won't be dying, anytime soon.

I don't think this has anything to do with John and Sherlock becoming (or not becoming) a couple. I can understand what she's talking about. I would be uncomfortable, too, if someone drew me having sex with someone I wouldn't want to have sex with and put it on the internet. The drawings are just too well done and too similar to the actors. :D

I actually think she's so miffed about it, because she's knows that they WILL become a couple and that those drawings will only increase when that happens, but maybe that's too far a leap.

**Posted by besleybean** August 21, 2014 7:11 pm

And possibly not entirely fair on Amanda,.
I'm sure she knows a great deal more about it than any of us!

Last edited by besleybean (August 21, 2014 7:11 pm)

**Posted by Lola Red** November 19, 2014 3:58 pm

My guess would be that they get rid of Mary during the special. It would make a nice nod towards the canon to have her leave in between seasons, as apposed to in between stories.

That being said, I hope they don't kill her off. I really do not want to see John hurt again, both because I feel for the character and because I think Martin can portrait more than constant heartbreak. I cannot see a scenario where the death of the woman he loves and the mother of his child would not break his heart. In some special or interview one of the creators (I can't remeber who) said that Martin can find poetry in the everyman (might not be an exact quote) and I hope they let him do more of that again.

In my dream world, they figure out that right now they just want different things in life: Mary just wants to get away from the constant danger and bloodshed, she had her share. Now she just wants to be able to see her daughter grow up and redeem herself little by little through her work as a nurse. John on the other hand, as much as he loves his family, just cannot deny who he is in the long run. His place always was and will always be on the battlefield. Knowing they will always hold a place in each others hearts, they each go their own way. They forever cherish the chrismas holydays when they join Sherlock, Molly, Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson at 221B Baker Street. What a tender world that would be...

**Posted by maryagrawatson** November 19, 2014 5:00 pm

Lola Red wrote:
That being said, I hope they don't kill her off.

I read an ACD Mary Morstan piece a while ago that dissects all mentions of Watson's wife or possibly wives. The big reveal is that it's never said that Mary actually dies. She just goes away. People assume that she dies and remarries because Watson has a wife later on. The author of this piece posited that perhaps Mary very likely went to a sanitarium and later came back into Watson's life.

So if that's how Mofftis read the Mary situation, they could very well do something like you said and just have Mary go away, possibly to prison, only to reemerge later in John's life...

I agree that if John did forgive her and Mary dies, however it happens, it will destroy him. He is so on the edge of sanity right now...

Mary

**Posted by besleybean** November 19, 2014 6:03 pm

He has Sherlock to cheer him up!

**Posted by SusiGo** November 19, 2014 6:05 pm

besleybean wrote:
He has Sherlock to cheer him up!

Truer words have never been spoken.

**Posted by Schmiezi** November 19, 2014 6:47 pm

besleybean wrote:
He has Sherlock to cheer him up!

In so many ways.

**Posted by ancientsgate** November 19, 2014 8:18 pm

maryagrawatson wrote:
Lola Red wrote:
That being said, I hope they don't kill her off.
I read an ACD Mary Morstan piece a while ago that dissects all mentions of Watson's wife or possibly wives. The big reveal is that it's never said that Mary actually dies. She just goes away. People assume that she dies and remarries because Watson has a wife later on. The author of this piece posited that perhaps Mary very likely went to a sanitarium and later came back into Watson's life.
So if that's how Mofftis read the Mary situation, they could very well do something like you said and just have Mary go away, possibly to prison, only to reemerge later in John's life...
I agree that if John did forgive her and Mary dies, however it happens, it will destroy him. He is so on the edge of sanity right now...

The conundrum is the baby. By having her pregnant in the BBC canon, the writers have painted themselves into a corner. It'd be easy enough to write off Mary, either permanently or temporarily, through death, imprisonment, or running away to America or someplace, but what of the baby? And what of John's reaction to whatever happens with the baby? I sense some kind of heartbreak for John on the horizon-- whether Mary and the baby die, Mary dies and leaves the baby, the baby turns out not to be John's, who knows what the writers will cook up.

I missed where John is on the "edge of sanity". Not sure about that one. ??? He's defnitely a wounded warrior, and he follows Sherlock around, mostly heedless to his own safety half the time, and he doesn't choose well in the romance department, but that doesn't mean he's lost touch with reality or anything. Wrong thread for this, so ignore me.

**Posted by SolarSystem** November 20, 2014 8:26 am

ancientsgate wrote:
I missed where John is on the "edge of sanity". Not sure about that one. ??? He's defnitely a wounded warrior, and he follows Sherlock around, mostly heedless to his own safety half the time, and he doesn't choose well in the romance department, but that doesn't mean he's lost touch with reality or anything. Wrong thread for this, so ignore me.

Well, it has been said on this board that John is very likely going to beat up his wife and child eventually, so there you go.