Posted by besleybean January 5, 2014 3:51 pm | #241 |
That's the line that got me, too.
Posted by s.he January 5, 2014 4:18 pm | #242 |
ruthinks wrote:
Moffat and Gatiss' tease:
"How did you know John wouldn't move from that place? Why would you be me telling me all this? If you had really pulled that off,I'd be the last person you'd tell"
-Anderson.
Clearly that's one of the hints, that this explanation wasn't the way Sherlock have done it. Another hint is the short talk at the end of the episode between Sherlock and John. John says, Sherlock hadn't already told how he did it and Sherlock answers: "You know my methods." That's an invitation going on with thinking about it.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
Other explanations:
http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=4093
Posted by Stayin Alive January 6, 2014 12:45 pm | #243 |
Hi guys, I was offline for the weekend and I'm only 3 pages into the additional 8 pages that were created after my post. I understand the contention of some who may think that Andrew Scott didn't literally put the gun in his mouth for reasons such as Brandon Lee. But please bear in mind that prop or not, no one saw him pull the trigger! We just saw a gun (real or prop makes no difference) being placed to the mouth then the camera flashes to Sherlock recoiling and closing his eyes and the gunshot sound effect. But no one saw on camera any gun being fired or any trigger being pulled. Just a sound effect was heard. So the "Brandon Lee reason" doesn't carry much weight because many movies were made long after with actors actually putting a gun IN their mouth and blowing their brains all over the screen...and living to make another film. I believe that was an intentional "out" by the creators in order to bring Moriarty back when the time is right. Why then there is no reference to Moriarty's body? What happened to it if he really did die?
PS: I'd rather believe theory #1 cuz its much cooler and awesome than theory #3!
I'll address and raise some other points later as I sift through the remaining pages. Thanks for your input guys!
Posted by Stayin Alive January 6, 2014 1:10 pm | #244 |
BTW, does anyone else notice that after the Anderson theory 3 scene, we see Sherlock snickering and laughing! It's almost as if Sherlock (and the creators) were mocking and laughing us theory fanatics saying, "Just look at these gullible idiots!"
Posted by ruthinks January 6, 2014 1:51 pm | #245 |
Stayin Alive wrote:
BTW, does anyone else notice that after the Anderson theory 3 scene, we see Sherlock snickering and laughing! It's almost as if Sherlock (and the creators) were mocking and laughing us theory fanatics saying, "Just look at these gullible idiots!"
We don't see him pulling the trigger,but what about the blood that comes out of his head. And why would he do that?
Posted by Stayin Alive January 6, 2014 1:57 pm | #246 |
ruthinks wrote:
Stayin Alive wrote:
BTW, does anyone else notice that after the Anderson theory 3 scene, we see Sherlock snickering and laughing! It's almost as if Sherlock (and the creators) were mocking and laughing us theory fanatics saying, "Just look at these gullible idiots!"
We don't see him pulling the trigger,but what about the blood that comes out of his head. And why would he do that?
Fake blood coming out from his jacket ofcourse. Will explain the other details later. At work at the moment lol...
Posted by Stayin Alive January 6, 2014 2:32 pm | #247 |
Sherlock Holmes wrote:
When I first saw the Derren Brown spoiler ages ago I said "if that's involved in the actual explanation I'll never watch this series again".
When I saw the photos I myself was disappointed, but when I saw TEH opener, I was just amazed at how they pulled it off and presented it. The bungee jump, the crash through window, the ruffle hair, the smootch...all I could do was sit back and nod my head and say, "Now that, is a BOSS!"
Posted by Mattlocked January 6, 2014 2:42 pm | #248 |
Right, but you probably aren't disappointed because you know that it's not the real explanation.
Posted by Stayin Alive January 6, 2014 2:51 pm | #249 |
Commonwealth wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
Agreed...the first time was done for effect (it really looked cool, didn't it?)...the second for fun. But none of them were as detailed as the third one, and refered to all the clues in the episode.
I was intrigued by this comment from a few days ago because it reminded me of Sherlock's comment in Many Happy Returns, "Only lies have detail"
Perhaps we are mistaken in assuming it is either a) Anderson's fantasy and therefore wrong or b) an actual scene of Sherlock telling Anderson the truth. As others have already mentioned, the placement of the scene is very awkward in the middle of the bomb scene with Sherlock and John. Whenever they came out of a theory previously in the episode, we were told who was having the fantasy. Anderson for theory 1 and Laura on theory 2. We can rule out John for theory 3 because there's far too much there that he couldn't have known about. Maybe Anderson was fantasizing at the same time that Sherlock and John were trying to defuse the bomb but Sherlock tells Anderson near the end of the scene "of course you've wasted police time, perverted the course of justice, risked distracting me from a massive terrorist assault that could have both destroyed Parliament and caused the deaths of hundreds of people." Anderson has no idea at that point that Sherlock is investigating a terrorist assault nor that the target was Parliament so this isn't Anderson's fantasy. That leaves Sherlock. The scene was playing out in Sherlock's head while he and John were in the train.
Thank you! Notice also that its not a coincidence that Sherlock was snickering and laughing in the train at the end of that scene as if he'd played a really bad (double) joke on both John with the bomb, and the viewers with the Anderson theory. Food for thought...
Posted by Stayin Alive January 6, 2014 2:56 pm | #250 |
Mattlocked wrote:
Right, but you probably aren't disappointed because you know that it's not the real explanation.
Ofcourse I was not disappointed! I was glad to see how that looked! Really glad it's not true though. It was pure genious how they paid tribute to the big popular theories without making it look weird and odd for fans. That's what Benedict meant when he said that they were going to be "generous" with the explaination.
Posted by sherlocked January 6, 2014 3:17 pm | #251 |
Stayin' alive, I'm absolutely convinced for several reasons, that Moriarty is dead (one of them being, that Anderson seems to assume, he's dead), but otherwise I feel with you. The theory, we got, is pretty crappy IMO, but now, that I've read the article in the Sunday Times, where The BBC is quoted, saying, it won't be revisited, I think, we're done with it, and have to leave it or like it. I have my ideas, why Mofftiss kept it so vague, and didn't explain many clues and loose ends. It may have something to do with the big time lapse in between seasons, like 'killing Sherlock is sooo two years ago'. Maybe, they just decided to start with a more or less clean slate. By keeping it a bit ambiguos, they can avoid critism and always point out, that only poor Anderson came up with the ridiculous blue pillow. A big copout IMO, but others think, it's brilliant. I suspect, that season 4 might prove an equally long wait. Then, TRF would be four years ago. It's pretty much impossible to revisit TRF then. So, I think, the faction of our fandom, which dislikes the presented solution, has to come to terms with it. I, for one will still watch and enjoy, but I will never again invest time into video sleuthing and hunting for clues, since there doesn't seem to be any reliability, and part of the charm, the show had for me, is lost. And, while I dread the end of season three, I do hope, they go back to what they did best in seasons 1 and 2: Solving crimes with their brains.
Posted by tonnaree January 6, 2014 4:34 pm | #252 |
Don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but I really like Den of Geek's thoughts on the matter.
http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/sherlock/231874/sherlock-s-fall-the-empty-hearse-and-magic-tricks
Posted by ruthinks January 6, 2014 4:43 pm | #253 |
All of those around me are thoughtlessly abusing season 3 and am defending Sherlock. But even I felt that there was something wrong with season 3,there is something missing. The complexity,the darkness. I am very happy with the two episodes,but quite frankly,if the third episode does not contain an explanation for how he survives and the theory he tells Anderson is the one that is true,I'd seriously be disappointed. I don't wanna be a @!%# and all,but I really fear that this would happen,am already feeling anxious and sad.
Posted by Mary Me January 6, 2014 4:53 pm | #254 |
Hahaha. I on the other hand, will be disappointed if they are indeed going to give us another explanation. The last one just felt right and was presented at the perfect time when the suspense was the highest.
Has anybody ever thought that the blending in of the last theory would be pretty pointless if it wasn't the actual solution?
Posted by ruthinks January 6, 2014 5:04 pm | #255 |
There are another two odd things about Anderson's theory:
1: (After Moriarty shoots himself),"I knew I didn't have long...".
Why did he not have long? Moriarty didn't seem to give any time limit to those shooters or Sherlock. All the shooters could think that Moriarty and Sherlock still might be into conversation.
Chuck that,not a great point.
2: This one is interesting to me. In Scandal in Belgravia,Sherlock shoots a bullet in the air to make the police get there faster and they do get there faster. When Moriarty kills himself,there is no silencer on his gun,there is an actual gunshot if we believe them. Then why doesn't any police come. Does Sherlock's homeless network obstruct them from coming? But they never really could've done that, could they? (Sherlock says there were only 25 people who knew,at most).
Posted by ruthinks January 6, 2014 5:17 pm | #256 |
Mary Me wrote:
Hahaha. I on the other hand, will be disappointed if they are indeed going to give us another explanation. The last one just felt right and was presented at the perfect time when the suspense was the highest.
Has anybody ever thought that the blending in of the last theory would be pretty pointless if it wasn't the actual solution?
There are many unanswered questions. If you have followed the thread,you'd know. Moriarty's death. Anderson's feedback. Especially "If you had pulled that off,I'd be the last person you'd tell". I don't know how many would concur,but to me,personally,even though the theory was plausible,it didn't feel quite right. Feels as if something's missing. Something buried deep. Most of all,the part that gets to me is when Moriarty suddenly goes from "You're ordinary" to "You're not ordinary..I see",bam! kills himself.
Posted by besleybean January 6, 2014 5:30 pm | #257 |
Maybe Moriarty feels at that moment that he would never beat Sherlock really.
Posted by s.he January 6, 2014 5:44 pm | #258 |
Mary Me wrote:
Has anybody ever thought that the blending in of the last theory would be pretty pointless if it wasn't the actual solution?
No pointless. It simply was the way they filmed it.
@ ruthinks: I'm with you. Do you know this thread? http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=4093&p=1
Will think about some of your points.
Posted by sherlocked January 6, 2014 5:46 pm | #259 |
ruthinks, couldn't agree more. There was so much debth and darkness in TRF. I am really missing that so far. And to explain Moriarty's last words simply with him going rapidly over the edge, simply doesn't do it for me. Nothing of that darkness is reflected in the solution. BTW, everyone around me, who followed the show more casually, dislike it or are pretty indifferent, and say, they might not follow anymore. 'The Solution' doesn't get very high marks either. Some aquaintance, who works as an fire expert for the police, said to me, that you would never come up with such a ridiculous pillow, if you try to save a person on a roof top of a burning house. There are much better and safer devices, which you don't have to blow up before using, and are less conspicous to boot, btw. Since all this was thought out some time in advance as one of the 13 scenarios by Sherlock and Mycroft, he said, they really should've been able to come up with something better. But I really, really cannot see a way to present another solution in the next episode, and to carry it over into the next season, which might be aired two years from now... I don't see it.
Posted by Stayin Alive January 6, 2014 5:47 pm | #260 |
sherlocked wrote:
Stayin' alive, I'm absolutely convinced for several reasons, that Moriarty is dead (one of them being, that Anderson seems to assume, he's dead), but otherwise I feel with you. The theory, we got, is pretty crappy IMO, but now, that I've read the article in the Sunday Times, where The BBC is quoted, saying, it won't be revisited, I think, we're done with it, and have to leave it or like it. I have my ideas, why Mofftiss kept it so vague, and didn't explain many clues and loose ends. It may have something to do with the big time lapse in between seasons, like 'killing Sherlock is sooo two years ago'. Maybe, they just decided to start with a more or less clean slate. By keeping it a bit ambiguos, they can avoid critism and always point out, that only poor Anderson came up with the ridiculous blue pillow. A big copout IMO, but others think, it's brilliant. I suspect, that season 4 might prove an equally long wait. Then, TRF would be four years ago. It's pretty much impossible to revisit TRF then. So, I think, the faction of our fandom, which dislikes the presented solution, has to come to terms with it. I, for one will still watch and enjoy, but I will never again invest time into video sleuthing and hunting for clues, since there doesn't seem to be any reliability, and part of the charm, the show had for me, is lost. And, while I dread the end of season three, I do hope, they go back to what they did best in seasons 1 and 2: Solving crimes with their brains.
Well I hope they don't cop-out, because if they've been keeping up with the fandom, they will understand just how much this means to all of us. TRF actually boosted the series to great heights and stirred up and generated new fans. To cop-out would be a disaster for them and they're smart enough (I hope!) to know that they will definitely lose many fans in the process. TRF was imo a true masterpiece filled with many clues and little things that can keep your head spinning with all sorts of theories and possibilities. We still don't even know what IOU means! They really need to clear up the loose ends otherwise fans will feel cheated for waiting 2 years and definitely won't create the excitement or fuss for the next season. Mofftiss will be greeted with the same fuss that Game of Shadows is currently experienceing....zilch!