BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Johnlock: The Official Debate

**Posted by Mattlocked** April 11, 2014 3:43 pm

To me "bromance" is more deep, deeeeep friendship and "romance" is more romance. Can't explain, just a feeling.

**Posted by SusiGo** April 11, 2014 3:50 pm

Maybe I have a problem with applying a term coined by a skateboard magazine in the 1990s (I did my research ) to this pairing. It just sounds off.

Another thing that struck me some time ago - it is possible that saying you love someone is more common in English-speaking countries? For the life of me I cannot imagine my husband telling any of his male friends that he loves him. Is it possible that for Germans it sounds stronger because in our culture the words are more or less restriced to a romantic/sexual relationship?

**Posted by gently69** April 11, 2014 4:11 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
To me "bromance" is more deep, deeeeep friendship and "romance" is more romance. Can't explain, just a feeling.

I second that!!!

**Posted by gently69** April 11, 2014 4:16 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Another thing that struck me some time ago - it is possible that saying you love someone is more common in English-speaking countries? For the life of me I cannot imagine my husband telling any of his male friends that he loves him. Is it possible that for Germans it sounds stronger because in our culture the words are more or less restriced to a romantic/sexual relationship?

I second that as well. Apart from my husband I would say I love you to my mum. That's it tbh.

**Posted by SolarSystem** April 11, 2014 4:56 pm

tonnaree wrote:
If the writers eventually let Sherlock and John be something more than friends it will not mean that "friendship" wasn't good enough but that the freindship was so good it grew into something more. This happens a lot in real life.

I completely agree. We've had this before, and I'm repeating myself when I'm saying that it's not about what's better and what's inferior. Nobody here is saying that a deep friendship (between two men or between whomsoever, for that matter) is worth less than a romantic relationship. And since we're at it, do we have to put a label on everything all the time?
I would understand the term 'bromance' as 'brotherly love', and although I completely understand what's meant by it when someone uses the term, just like to Susi it feels a bit artificially constructed to me. And I love the fact that Jude Law and RDJ seem to be a bit more relaxed when it comes to the term 'romance' to describe the relationship between Holmes and Watson.

And to me 'romance' doesn't automatically exclude a deep, deep friendship. You can be in a romantic relationship and still have a deep friendship with the very same person - and to be honest, that's how it ideally should be, in my opinion.

Last edited by SolarSystem (April 11, 2014 5:03 pm)

**Posted by SusiGo** April 11, 2014 5:02 pm

Yes to all that.

And in general:
If you have a look at all the clever metas about the subtle use of music, lighting, colours, etc. you may get convinced that something may not be spoken aloud but is still hinted at by other artistic means.

**Posted by SolarSystem** April 11, 2014 5:07 pm

Right, Susi.
But even if you don't see it or don't want to see it, I think it's just a bit... difficult to say that there's nothing there. Just because someone doesn't see it (which is totally fine) doesn't mean that that's the ultimate truth. There is no ultimative truth about BBC Sherlock and John, in my opinion.

**Posted by tonnaree** April 11, 2014 6:08 pm

There is no ultimative truth about BBC Sherlock and John, in my opinion.

.....................and that's why I will sail my ship to the ends of the earth! No pun intended.

**Posted by Zatoichi** April 11, 2014 7:29 pm

It would be such a good pun though, tonnaree!

My ship isn´t sailed by Johnlock, so I hope you´re right and there will be no ultimate truth about them. Tbh in S3 it was hard for me to not see Johnlock and stick to my favourite interpretation, which is no physical attraction between them.. I wouldn´t mind if they took a step back from that. (But I know it´s an unpopular opinion here, please don´t throw things at me! )

**Posted by besleybean** April 11, 2014 8:44 pm

I'm honestly not only chiming in to agree with you.
I just sometimes wonder if I watch a different show...I see no Johnlock in S3!
The season when John gets married?

**Posted by SolarSystem** April 11, 2014 8:50 pm

Zatoichi wrote:
Tbh in S3 it was hard for me to not see Johnlock and stick to my favourite interpretation, which is no physical attraction between them..

Now I really would like to know in which scenes exactly you didn't not see Johnlock...?

**Posted by Zatoichi** April 11, 2014 9:54 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
Zatoichi wrote:
Tbh in S3 it was hard for me to not see Johnlock and stick to my favourite interpretation, which is no physical attraction between them..
Now I really would like to know in which scenes exactly you didn't not see Johnlock...?

Honestly, you want me to repeat everything that has been pointed out in several threads and throughout the internet?

@besleybean: I wish I´d see it like you.. In S1 and 2 somehow the feeling was different, I was convinced everyone was just jumping to conclusions when they shipped Johnlock just because they lived together, liked each other and were both attractive and unattached. But S3 is so.. charged with emotion, I´m not sure anymore. I can´t help interpreting some of their behaviour, their looks, the little touches etc as romatinc feelings.. And no matter how hard I try I can´t think of anything Sherlock always wanted to say to John that hasn´t been said before and is not of romantic nature..

**Posted by besleybean** April 11, 2014 10:01 pm

I just know they love each over deeply.
But they don't want to go bed with each other.

**Posted by Mattlocked** April 11, 2014 10:14 pm

Hm..... "love each other deeply" is Johnlock, no matter whether they want to go to bed with each other or not.
I mentioned it before quite a long time ago that I think I don't want them to end in bed in the show. I'm fine with fanfiction, though.
Then again I don't think e.g. hubby is "deeply in love" with any of his friends. So what Sherlock and John have is a very, very special connection to me. Johnlock.

**Posted by besleybean** April 12, 2014 6:43 am

I don't think John and Sherlock are in love at all.
But I do think they love each other.

**Posted by gently69** April 12, 2014 7:20 am

What exactly would be the difference between not being in love at all but love each other?

**Posted by besleybean** April 12, 2014 7:25 am

I love my family and friends, but I'm not in love with them.

**Posted by gently69** April 12, 2014 7:34 am

Right. The second one would include intimacy/sex then. (Don't think we have this Germany, using the word love in these different meanings. That's why I ask.)

Yeah that's what I think as well. In fan fiction it's fine for me (now) that they are in love with all those ... but in the show there is no place for it.

**Posted by Mattlocked** April 12, 2014 8:14 am

Maybe in German it's more the difference between "love" and "like" then.
I love my husband, I like my friends. I also love my sister. But in a different way as my husband. So I'm in love with my husband, but not with my sister. Now I think I understand.
Still there is a very special connection between Sherlock and John, as hubby likes his friends, but doesn't love them.

**Posted by Zatoichi** April 12, 2014 8:23 am

besleybean wrote:
I just know they love each over deeply.
But they don't want to go bed with each other.

I didn´t think of the bed just yet, more in terms of hold and never let go.. but yeah, that would probably amount to the bed sooner or later for most people.

I guess the reason why I think I see romance/physical attraction is that most people including me would get such feelings at their level of love and commitment. But then Sherlock and John aren´t most people and you should never project your own character on others.. Who will ever know what´s going on in their funny old brains, to paraphrase Mrs. Hudson. I really like the thought that it´s all agape without any eros involved (not that I have anything against eros but.. you know. *supresses urge to justify herself*)