...Out of character...

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Posted by BigFan
June 16, 2012 7:04 pm
#1

I do not know if that was ever an issue, but I noticed that he drove with a police car.
I thought it was strange because he ALWAYS has rejected it so otherwise.
But he went to trial in a police car.

And John says, remember what THEY told you ... Who are THEY?

Certainly not Miss Sorrel, the lawyer, or whatever the court is in English. She looked more confused.

And why pass two months before Moriarty is doing something, if he has anything planned for so long (Study in Pink).

That would be my questions, but there are still more 

(Sorry for my realy bad english)

 
Posted by m0r1arty
June 16, 2012 7:15 pm
#2

It was 6 weeks and in the UK this is regular to make sure that evidence has been verified and is beyond repute when offered.

Lots of bureaucracy, and otherwise time killers, but it is to make sure that a case stands true and that the police have no recrimination against them.

As for Sherlock taking a police car - I agree, it's quite odd.

-m0r


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Posted by Davina
June 16, 2012 8:13 pm
#3

You know, I had not really noticed that it was in a police car. I can only assume that it was for police protection of some kind. Normally a witness would not travel in a police car to give evidence at a trial. He is appearing as an expert witness on the prosecution's side at the trial. By, 'Remember what they told you,'  I assume it is the prosecution legal team, plus the police who have briefed him before the trial.

The unconvincing bit in the courtroom scene is where the QC ( or what ever she is) barrister makes the error of leading the witness. This just would not happen at such a level of trial in reality. These barristers do know what they are doing.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 
Posted by Smoggy_London_Air
June 16, 2012 9:33 pm
#4

I think, at least from what I know about trials in America, that it might be mandatory for Sherlock to ride in a police car because of the suspected scope of Moriarty's organisation in the trial.

He's a VERY key witness and therefore might be in danger, particularly with what his out-of-court statement probably said, and we can assume that he made one because otherwise Ms. Sorrell asserting that he called Moriarty "a consulting criminal" would be hearsay. You hear about witnesses receiving police protection, at least in a case like this when they are potentially in danger.

I'm on my school's mock trial team as an attorney and I LOVED the courtroom scene. That said, it was odd that Ms. Sorrell led the witness. Even I know that you can't do that, and the training for mock trial is a joke compared to real law school.


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Posted by ancientsgate
June 17, 2012 4:09 am
#5

BigFan wrote:

and John says, remember what THEY told you ... Who are THEY?...

I presume the prosecutors coached him, as they would any witness they knew they would be calling to testify....we'll ask this, you need to be careful to say what you say this way, don't go on and on, don't answer any question that wasn't actually asked, keep your answers simple, don't give info you weren't asked for, who to keep eye contact with, etc. And then the defense does the same-- coaches their witnesses on how to handle themselves, how best to answer what's asked of them, who to look at while answering, etc. I think this is standard court procedure, on both sides of the docket.

 
Posted by Sherlock Holmes
June 21, 2012 10:17 am
#6

ancientsgate wrote:

BigFan wrote:

and John says, remember what THEY told you ... Who are THEY?...

I presume the prosecutors coached him, as they would any witness they knew they would be calling to testify....we'll ask this, you need to be careful to say what you say this way, don't go on and on, don't answer any question that wasn't actually asked, keep your answers simple, don't give info you weren't asked for, who to keep eye contact with, etc. And then the defense does the same-- coaches their witnesses on how to handle themselves, how best to answer what's asked of them, who to look at while answering, etc. I think this is standard court procedure, on both sides of the docket.

Haha, I can just imagine them trying to advise Sherlock and him not listening to a word they're saying.


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Posted by Davina
July 22, 2012 9:09 pm
#7

To me, and this may seem callous, the thing that is really out of character for Sherlock is that he succumbs to sentiment. Or at least, he appears to succumb to sentiment. Moriarty's threats to his 'friends' rely upon him really caring deeply enough about them to die for them. Is this really the Sherlock we know? We have seen him hit people, throw them out of windows but actually sacrifice his own life for them? Really? We know both he and Mycroft believe sentiment to be on the losing side.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 
Posted by ancientsgate
July 22, 2012 11:37 pm
#8

Davina wrote:

To me, and this may seem callous, the thing that is really out of character for Sherlock is that he succumbs to sentiment. Or at least, he appears to succumb to sentiment. Moriarty's threats to his 'friends' rely upon him really caring deeply enough about them to die for them. Is this really the Sherlock we know? We have seen him hit people, throw them out of windows but actually sacrifice his own life for them? Really? We know both he and Mycroft believe sentiment to be on the losing side.

I looked up the word sentiment in my computer dictionary. It said <<<Tender, romantic, or nostalgic feeling or emotion>>>  I believe that where Sherlock has decided he's not going to go is to relationship sentiment-- selfless, unconditional love, where one is often required to step over or deny his own needs and wants to prefer someone else. So far in his life, he's given that kind of thing no place in his head, heart or home. Doesn't mean he couldn't change, if the right person came along. People can and do change (evolve) as they age, gain more life experiences, and get a little perspective and wisdom, after all. I don't think Sherlock is hopeless, lol.

Trying to keep safe those who have tried their best to befriend you, whether or not you ever saw yourself in a "friend" role towards them, is only the decent thing to do, after all. Forced to the wall, Sherlock would probably never admit to having any kind of tender, romantic or nostalgic feelings about anyone in his life, but to callously let them go to their deaths just because he didn't want to or couldn't do the hard thing? Nah. He's too good a man. As John said, he was the best human...human being.

And add to all that, Sherlock was pretty damned sure he wasn't going to have to die. All he had to do was tell John a few lies, buck up his courage, and JUMP. And the rest would get sorted later.

 
Posted by ancientsgate
July 22, 2012 11:39 pm
#9

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Haha, I can just imagine them trying to advise Sherlock and him not listening to a word they're saying.

Yes. This was John's point, in the car on the way over. Sherlock wasn't listening to him, either.  "Intelligent, yes, but let's give smartass a wide berth," fell on deaf ears.  *smile*

 
Posted by Davina
July 23, 2012 6:47 am
#10

Exactly...he knows he doesn't have to die doesn't he. He doesn't have to lay down his life for his 'friends'...he just has to appear to do so. What about him naming his three 'friends' for Moriarty on the roof? That's actually quite calculated. He wants to know who Moriarty has lined up in his sights and who is free from the crosswire. He is looking for confirmation from Moriarty.

Sherlock's views of sentiment is not just the Irene, lovey-dovey kind of sentiment. It is also the caring about
the victims in The Great Game. Remember where he asserts to John that caring will not save them and therefore he will not make the mistake of engaging in it. 'Not much cop this caring business.'




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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 
Posted by besleybean
October 6, 2012 8:33 pm
#11

I think he lists his friends to check Moriarty doesn't know about his secret weapon(s):  Molly and possibly Mycroft?
I think Sherlock goes on the roof thinking he might die.  So he sets up an escape plan, in case he can't beat Moriarty.
He possibly just needs  a stunt to get out of the heat for  while...
It's out of character for him to apologise.


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