Sherlock Plan doesn't make sense?

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Posted by bertiebertie100
January 9, 2017 7:02 pm
#1

When Smiths 'daughter' walks into the room, Sherlock expects to see the woman he had met at his flat. Now we know it wasn't, and Sherlock was wrong, this leads to John putting Sherlock in hospital. If it had of been the woman at the flat/Sherlock thought was the actual daughter and she confirmed that her dad was a serial killer, Sherlock would of never of been in hospital and never of been in danger from Smith, therefore John would of never had an opportunity to save him? So does sherlock already know its not going to the woman from his flat before the actual daughter walks in? 

 
Posted by bertiebertie100
January 9, 2017 7:08 pm
#2

PLEASE HELP, I NEED TO KNOW IF I HAVE MISSED SOMETHING!

 
Posted by Liberty
January 9, 2017 7:09 pm
#3

I wondered about that, and I think he has to know.  He seems shocked but the whole thing is an act to get Culverton to try to kill him and have John rescue him (including John beating him up - much as I don't like that, it does seem to be part of Sherlock's plan).  If Culverton's daugher "remembered" him, then what good would that have done anyway?  Would Culverton have confessed when she wasn't drugged? I doubt it.

Sherlock is holding back on us, I think.

 
Posted by bertiebertie100
January 9, 2017 7:25 pm
#4

Liberty wrote:

I wondered about that, and I think he has to know.  He seems shocked but the whole thing is an act to get Culverton to try to kill him and have John rescue him (including John beating him up - much as I don't like that, it does seem to be part of Sherlock's plan).  If Culverton's daugher "remembered" him, then what good would that have done anyway?  Would Culverton have confessed when she wasn't drugged? I doubt it.

Sherlock is holding back on us, I think.

Thank you, so I'm guessing Sherlock had already come to the conclusion that it was an 'illusion' and that there had never been a woman at his flat?

 
Posted by Liberty
January 9, 2017 7:38 pm
#5

He definitely thinks that later on, but I'm not sure what he thinks earlier - he does seem to be genuinely suprised.  However, I just can't see how phoning the daughter really fitted into his plan.  It was never going to be resolved there in the mortuary.  It needed Sherlock to be almost killed by Culverton.  If bringing Faith there had made Culverton confess, then that wouldn't have happened.   I don't know if that's a plot hole, or if Sherlock is hiding that he suspects more than we know.   

 
Posted by Preceja
January 9, 2017 7:46 pm
#6

Maybe he had some suspicion and just wanted to confirm who is real CS's daughter. 
 

 
Posted by Lis
January 9, 2017 7:49 pm
#7

My sister and I were trying to work this out yesterday as if he did think he had met Faith and she was actually on her way to the hospital we couldn't work out how that would have resolved things and Sherlock had already planned getting the confession from Culverton when he was trying to kill him as shown by him putting the audio recorder in John's cane. The only thing we could think was that even if Sherlock had met the real daughter and she arrived Sherlock was going to still have some sort of drug fuelled freakout and attack Culverton and the woman he met turning out not to be Faith was just a sort of additional reason to get his freakout going. It's still a bit of a puzzler for me though.

Him suspecting something about Faith but not letting on could make sense too but them he seems reassured that he did actually meet a real woman when he finds the note at the flat.

Last edited by Lis (January 9, 2017 7:51 pm)


                                                                                                                      

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Posted by Preceja
January 9, 2017 9:17 pm
#8

He had only photo of Faith, in reality he compared other aspects, too, and decided she is not the woman the met.
But Euros and Faith were very alike. Was it the reason why Euros  reason why she chose CS for her plans? Or she just noticed it and it seemed to her as fun to pretend this to Sherlock? 

I somehow do not see why she would do either of this so what are her plans?
How many hidden serial killers are in London and can be used to attract Sherlock ? I am really confused with the role of Euros but mybe next week it will be clear. 

Last edited by Preceja (January 9, 2017 9:19 pm)

 
Posted by Vhanja
January 9, 2017 9:29 pm
#9

Perhaps this was his Plan A - if Faith could here the confession, perhaps CS would call in guards, attach Sherlock or something like that - and thus John could play the protective soldier part again.

If that for whatever reason failed, being put in hospital might have been his Plan B?


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Posted by Preceja
January 10, 2017 12:11 am
#10

I rewatched it  now and it seems that he really did not have any idea that Faint was not the person in his flat. So maybe the reason for including the daughter was to provoke CS  to ensure he is really going to kill him.
There are still some open topics concerning CS so maybe next week we will see a bit more.

 
Posted by Yitzock
January 10, 2017 12:48 am
#11

Vhanja wrote:

Perhaps this was his Plan A - if Faith could here the confession, perhaps CS would call in guards, attach Sherlock or something like that - and thus John could play the protective soldier part again.

If that for whatever reason failed, being put in hospital might have been his Plan B?

Plan A and Plan B, or Phase 1 and Phase 2 of the plan.  Like the different scenarios for jumping off of Bart's, there were different measures he predicted he would need, and he ended up needing them.



Clueing for looks.
 
Posted by Liberty
January 10, 2017 8:48 am
#12

I don't think the hospital staff would attack Sherlock - not to the extent John thought his life was in danger.  He's actually more of a risk from John there.   Yes, there could have been more plans, but Plan A didn't seem to be a very good one.  And how could Plan C/D/E have involved Culverton's daughter not being who he thought she was, unless Sherlock suspected that?  But I agree, on rewatching he does seem genuinely surprised.  I just don't understand what Plan A was supposed to be.  It's clear Culverton isn't worried. 

I do feel that Sherlock had to have the "dying detective" plan ready.  It was the only one that was going to work - he just placed an awful lot of faith in John working it out, or perhaps seeing Mary's message, and coming to get him at just the right time!

 
Posted by Preceja
January 10, 2017 10:01 am
#13

They did not want to elaborate it too much. Sherlock says that he had backup plans but could not remember them. (I am not sure how it was exactly, if he could not remember them back in his flat or in the hospital , which would be quite dangerous) . So we are supposed to  believe that it was safe for him even if John did not come on time. It did not seem that way and I really hate when a person is saved in the last second  so it is better to believe that Sherlock had it under control as I do not expect any more information here. 

 
Posted by Liberty
January 10, 2017 10:07 am
#14

No, I don't think we'll get any more, and I think for the sake of drama, it had to be that way.  No point in John bursting in a minute earlier.  

In reality, even though Sherlock was ill and damaged, I think he was capable of resisting Culverton if he'd wanted to.  As in the original story, he was genuinely suffering but was also acting.  But he let it continue to a point where he would have lost consciousness and been unable to fight back. 

But I agree, he must have had some way to not let it happen.  He "wouldn't do that to John Watson" (can you imagine John's despair at getting there a minute too late?).

 
Posted by Russell
January 11, 2017 7:29 am
#15

Liberty wrote:

I do feel that Sherlock had to have the "dying detective" plan ready.  It was the only one that was going to work - he just placed an awful lot of faith in John working it out, or perhaps seeing Mary's message, and coming to get him at just the right time!

 
That's what I didn't get either.... I commented several times to my viewing friend 'but.. how did he know he could count on John showing up in time?'  And to have the cane ready for weeks with a listening device, if he thought he could get a confession out of Culverton in the morgue (what, did he have a device ready on him then, too, in case?). Again, television dramatic timing... (kind of like Molly ringing the therapist doorbell right after John's comment about who to get a second opinion from)
I couldn't help but laugh at a tumblr fan's affectionate snark about it, though -

Sherlock: I need to know what to do about John
Ella, probably: You could give him a bit of time and then have a conversation like two grown ass adults
Sherlock: hmmmmmmmm
Mary from beyond the grave: you could GET WREKT and DIE
Sherlock: Yes, that'll work


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Posted by besleybean
January 11, 2017 7:31 am
#16

That is so Sherlock...it's what John responds to.


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Posted by Liberty
January 11, 2017 7:40 am
#17

Yes, I think there was quite a lot of dramatic timing in this episode!  Same at the beginning when John talks about Sherlock and the car arrives! 

Another thing was that it seemed that they had to get Culverton arrested for attempted murder.  The recording wasn't admissible due to entrapment.   I don't know if that would still have been the case if Sherlock had got a confession in the mortuary. 
 

 
Posted by miriel68
January 11, 2017 8:17 am
#18

Liberty wrote:

Yes, I think there was quite a lot of dramatic timing in this episode!  Same at the beginning when John talks about Sherlock and the car arrives!  

Well, dramatic timing is needed because... it's dramatic timing. For example, for all his cleverness in figuring out where John would be two weeks in advance, Sherlock could not possibly predict when exactly mrs Hudson would decide to abduct him.

Sherlock is looking at Culverton & Faith photo on the phone when she is in his flat. Even drugged, there is no human possibility he would not notice it is not the same person, I think. I think it is quite probable he was convinced she was part of his hallucination and the whole "texting your daughter and then loosing it" part was set up for being put in the hospital.
 

 
Posted by Preceja
January 11, 2017 8:29 am
#19

Sherlock had several plans and had to prepare everything in advance , I see nothing strange in the cane prepared just in case. But where was it? In Baker street? Probably so John had to go there and back to hospital but there could be quite a long time between mortuary and the scene in the room. 

And the DVD scene- Mrs. Hudson was watching the video with Sherlock so he might even ask her to aim John to it. But why she asked him then if he would not like to watch it later when she knew it was so urgent. Or did not she realized that Sherlock was in danger at the moment fulfilling the wish of Mary? 

 

Last edited by Preceja (January 11, 2017 8:33 am)

 
Posted by JP
January 11, 2017 12:35 pm
#20

miriel68 wrote:

Well, dramatic timing is needed because... it's dramatic timing. For example, for all his cleverness in figuring out where John would be two weeks in advance, Sherlock could not possibly predict when exactly mrs Hudson would decide to abduct him.

I think it refers to Sherlock's lines in TST:

SHERLOCK: Mary, no human action is ever truly random. (Quick fire) An advanced grasp of the mathematics of probability mapped onto a thorough apprehension of human psychology and the known dispositions of any given individual can reduce the number of variables considerably.

Yes, he can!

 


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