BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 / Why do you think Holmes brothers are unable to love?

**Posted by BHavers** August 21, 2015 5:07 pm

I know nothing about therapy, but I would say that someone who is unable to love didn't receive enough love in his (her) childhood. But Mum & Dad seem good parents, loving parents, quite normal -much too normal, actually, when you see their offsprings

So what could explain Sherlock and Mycroft's despise for love and defiance for others?

Of course, Sherlock is able to care. He does care much for John, his brother, Mrs Hudson, even Lestrade. If you agree to say that a strong friendship implies a certain form of love, he may be able to love.
Save for Sherlock, though, Mycroft is unable to care.
And both are kind of autists. Why, in your opinion?

Last edited by BHavers (August 21, 2015 5:10 pm)

**Posted by tonnaree** August 21, 2015 5:22 pm

I actually do not belive that Mycroft can't love. He obviously loves Sherlock. He said himself "Your loss would break my heart." Mycroft just has to be in 100% in comtrol at all times. I wonder if he was always like this or if it's something he's trained himself to do because of his "job."

**Posted by Yitzock** August 21, 2015 8:26 pm

Yes, I agree. Mycroft is not totally incapable of feeling love. He just doesn't express it very much, and he does control his feelings. I think it's a combination of his work and something to do with an event or events in the past. He did say "All hearts are broken" afterall, so maybe his heart was broken when he was younger and from then on he avoided feeling too much in order to spare himself from it happening again.

**Posted by TeaCub** August 21, 2015 8:39 pm

Honestly, I think it was a huge mistake, bringing in BC's parents to play the Holmes'. It filled in too many gaps and really doesn't make sense when you look at Sherlock and Mycroft as individuals; in fact, it just makes the way they are seem slightly pretentious, rather than giving deeper reasons for why they are how they are (which many fanfic writers, including myself, believed to be the result of a rough childhood and at the very least, an abusive father).

And yes, I think Mycroft can love. Maybe he's just scared to. Maybe they both are.

**Posted by nakahara** August 21, 2015 8:49 pm

TeaCub wrote:
Honestly, I think it was a huge mistake, bringing in BC's parents to play the Holmes'. It filled in too many gaps and really doesn't make sense when you look at Sherlock and Mycroft as individuals; in fact, it just makes the way they are seem slightly pretentious, rather than giving deeper reasons for why they are how they are (which many fanfic writers, including myself, believed to be the result of a rough childhood and at the very least, an abusive father).

And yes, I think Mycroft can love. Maybe he's just scared to. Maybe they both are.

I am personally glad that Moftiss avoided a clice of "rough childhood, abusive parents" - I´m tired of this theme because of its overuse in fics. Plus, I believe that bullying at school and in society for his intelligence was enough to turn Mycroft wary and slightly misanthropic towards people in general without him having abusive parents. He was then the main influence on Sherlock who formed similar traits because of it, but is much more playful and trusting when those traits come to test.

**Posted by tonnaree** August 22, 2015 3:45 pm

nakahara wrote:
TeaCub wrote:
Honestly, I think it was a huge mistake, bringing in BC's parents to play the Holmes'. It filled in too many gaps and really doesn't make sense when you look at Sherlock and Mycroft as individuals; in fact, it just makes the way they are seem slightly pretentious, rather than giving deeper reasons for why they are how they are (which many fanfic writers, including myself, believed to be the result of a rough childhood and at the very least, an abusive father).

And yes, I think Mycroft can love. Maybe he's just scared to. Maybe they both are.
I am personally glad that Moftiss avoided a clice of "rough childhood, abusive parents" - I´m tired of this theme because of its overuse in fics. Plus, I believe that bullying at school and in society for his intelligence was enough to turn Mycroft wary and slightly misanthropic towards people in general without him having abusive parents. He was then the main influence on Sherlock who formed similar traits because of it, but is much more playful and trusting when those traits come to test.

I agree. I think it was a nice twist to have Mum and Dad be just regular folk. Of course we know they're not really "regular." Mum's a math genius!

**Posted by BHavers** August 22, 2015 4:00 pm

I agree with Teaclub, I find Mum & Dad not really in the right place in the serie. Sort of oddity to see a normal family life. Math genius or no (a researcher who had to choose between research and children?!), it doesn't fit in the picture.

However, all explanations are useful: Mycroft isolated and defiant because of his IQ, and influencing his brother.
And maybe later a broken heart who refuses to get involved again.
Both scared by feelings.
I will think about it...

Last edited by BHavers (August 22, 2015 4:01 pm)

**Posted by tonnaree** August 22, 2015 4:37 pm

Just a note. It wasn't said she HAD to choose between work and kids. It's just said that she CHOSE. Big difference.

**Posted by Vhanja** August 22, 2015 6:02 pm

For this thread, I want to link to a series of metas by Wellingtoongoose concerning The Holmes family (and the Holmes brothers in particular) that I really enjoy:

http://wellingtongoose.tumblr.com/holmesfamily

I am particularly fond of this one:

http://wellingtongoose.tumblr.com/post/40248330269/the-holmes-brothers-equal-but-different

**Posted by nakahara** August 22, 2015 7:30 pm

BHavers wrote:
I agree with Teaclub, I find Mum & Dad not really in the right place in the serie. Sort of oddity to see a normal family life. Math genius or no (a researcher who had to choose between research and children?!), it doesn't fit in the picture.

But why?
Holmes brothers are excentric, that´s true, but they really are not scarred the way children abused in childhood are. They function just fine, they are just defiant towards the world who bullies them and abhors their intelligence, preffering mediocrity instead. Nothing really indicates that they had family problems in the past.

Last edited by nakahara (August 22, 2015 7:30 pm)

**Posted by Lola Red** August 23, 2015 11:39 am

I, too, think that the brothers are in no way incapable of love. Sherlock clearly has a deep love for the people close to him, and when it comes to John (and Irene) there has at least been enough doubt to inspire diverse discussion as if there is also a romantic element to it or not. Mycroft deeply loves his baby brother, so much so that it repeatedly puts his life’s work in danger. I think what we see in the both of them is a combination of being very much indulged as children (rather than abused) plus being socially isolated (they did not meet other children until Sherlock has been identified as an “idiot” and was able to recall it). Presumably they were both very much maladapted by the time they had to interact with people outside their family. This might have caused some form of trauma. Mycroft is very careful to keep people at arm’s length, but I could not say if this is because he is afraid of being hurt in some way or if he simply does not have the patience to constantly interact with “goldfish”. Sherlock basically imitates Mycroft’s behaviour (and fails spectacularly), possibly he used to (and secretly still does) look up to him and wanted to be like his smarter brother. He still goes to Mycroft whenever he is in trouble, either via his mind palace or by actually searching contact with him and Mycroft (of all people) is still one of his main emotional advisors and his advice usually runs along the lines of “caring is not an advantage”.

**Posted by Liberty** August 23, 2015 2:44 pm

I agree, Nakahara: I think they function pretty well in the way that they want to function. In some ways it looks like they are the product of an overindulged childhood, rather than abuse or neglect. I think Mrs Hudson's comment about Sherlock's mother having a lot to answer for was probably quite perceptive.

Both of them do love, so clearly are capable of love.   Mycroft obviously loves Sherlock, but I think he loves his parents too.   Why else would he put himself through the torture of Les Miserables?    He doesn't need anything from them.

I don't think either of them are looking for conventional romantic relationships, and Sherlock seems to think that they'd just interfere with work. Actually, I don't find this so odd - unusual, but not so strange.   I don't think this shows that they are incapable of love at all.   I'm not so sure about Mycroft, but for Sherlock in particular it's clear that he chooses not to go down that route, rather than that he can't.    (I kind of like the idea of retired Sherlock finally indulging).

**Posted by Dorothy83** August 24, 2015 9:25 am

I am also VERY glad that Mofftiss didn't go with the 'uncaring parents' cliche, because it would have been so painfully obvious and seen before and boring. I am happy they showed the parents as loving, with a very protective Mummy Holmes, which to be honest explains a lot to me in regards to why Mycroft is also so protective of Sherlock that he's basically overbearing (I imagine Mummy Holmes getting angry at Mycroft for not looking after his little brother )

And I also think that they only 'say' they don't want to get involved and love, but they actually love so much and so strongly, even more than the other characters do - I mean, did we not see the lengths they are capable of going for the person they love? Mycroft drops everything for Sherlock whenever he needs him, and has a hard time saying no to him even when Sherlock is being very irritating; and Sherlock, well, he's shown he'd do absolutely anything for John. So no, they are definitely NOT incapable of love - saying they are is very different than them actually being incapable of love.

And I definitely don't agree that they are autistic.

**Posted by nakahara** September 11, 2015 10:10 pm

Concerning Sherlock´s ability to love - a hilarious theory why is he wary when it comes to relationships:

http://canolacrush.tumblr.com/post/128691205774/im-amused-as-hell-over-the-colossal-bad-judgment

**Posted by RavenMorganLeigh** September 12, 2015 4:21 am

nakahara wrote:
Concerning Sherlock´s ability to love - a hilarious theory why is he wary when it comes to relationships:

http://canolacrush.tumblr.com/post/128691205774/im-amused-as-hell-over-the-colossal-bad-judgment

I saw that one the other day and reblogged it. Very funny.

Here's another consideration: Mycroft and Sherlock can know and understand a whole lot about everyone they meet through their deductions. They also do covert ops MI6 kind of stuff, apparently. Why *wouldn't* they be wary of "getting involved"?