The only time I have seen generalising of all fans on these terms are in your posts. 

No, they are not bound to always agree. And this is what makes this discussions a bit difficult - you draw these black or white conclusions that are false and that I have to argue against. Saying that I am disappointed that Ben has criticised Martin openly in an interview does not equal that I think they should always agree on all things. Could you please only argue against what I am actually writing instead of against these conclusions you draw yourself?

I think it was disappoinsting that Ben criticised Martin the way he did. That doesn't mean he has to agree with him, but that he should be professional and classy enough to a) not criticise him publically and b) not criticise him publically for a statement he only heard a one-sentence summary of from an interviewer, and thus do not really know much about.

I have listened to and read what we've got to go on, and what he is saying is pretty vague.  It's something I've noticed before, that Benedict is very good at speaking and lovely to listen to, and can seemingly talk on at length and sound knowledgeable about any question, but sometimes when you actually try to get to the bottom of what he said, it is actually a bit waffly.  This is not a criticism ... he's an actor, not a politician, and I love that he is able to speak so eloquently and takes the trouble to give these extensive answers so pleasantly.  I do wonder if there was a misunderstanding here and whatever he was trying to say didn't come across, or if he misunderstood the questions.   It's not the first time I've felt that his answers don't quite make sense ... although I think some of the difficulty is in the way the question is presented.  (It seem Martin wasn't just talking about people demanding they get together, but about people being unpleasant about them if they didn't). 

Really it boils down to Martin saying that he finds some of the unpleasant stuff bothers him and makes it less fun for him, and Benedict saying that he doesn't pay attention to it, and it doesn't bother him, and he doesn't think he has to pander to fans.   They're not really at odds with each other.  (And I still think that maybe Benedict genuinely hasn't come across the unpleasant stuff.  It's only a tiny section of the fanbase, after all). 

But I agree, Vhanja, that there does seem to be something off about the way he talks about Martin.  Perhaps it's just due to being put on the spot. 

It seems that Benedict has not changes his views about Martin's statements. The whole tone of the interview is quite unusual for him, much sharper than usual. And I feel that indeed something happened between the two of them whatever it may have been:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/benedict-cumberbatch-privilege-marvel-muscles-martin-freemans/

SusiGo wrote:

It seems that Benedict has not changes his views about Martin's statements. The whole tone of the interview is quite unusual for him, much sharper than usual. And I feel that indeed something happened between the two of them whatever it may have been:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/benedict-cumberbatch-privilege-marvel-muscles-martin-freemans/

Don´t they just repeat what was said in the original interview, changing a wording a bit?

Still, comments under the article show very well, who really abuses these actors - it´s a general audience, not their dedicated fans.

I would like to hope that Benedict and Martin are good enough friends that they can just be honest...I don't really know how much of a direct criticism it is, or least any sign of a deep rift...

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, as it's still the writer's words that it's a criticism of Martin (and the writer's words that Martin "grumbled to me"), making me wonder if the writer's trying to stir things up!   And I still don't think Ben actually addresses it ... Martin wasn't talking about fan expectations, so much as (trying to find a more polite way to put it than he did!) the fact that they accuse them of being awful people if they don't do what's expected.   Now, we know this sort of thing exists ... but in my ventures into the fandom outside this forum, the term "queerbaiting" was thrown about quite a lot, and more unpleasant accusations too - mainly aimed at the writers, I think.  But you can see Martin feeling the strain in that interview I posted on the other thread, where he talked about being called homophobic for denying the "romance".  And of course, if Benedict doesn't engage with it, he won't have any idea of what's gone on.  But we here, do know about it, even if the general public don't. 

But yes, I do agree there is a hint of negativity towards Martin there, and if he really is criticising him, then I do think that's a bit off.   I realise that you must have to develop a hard skin in showbusiness (I can't imagine it's fun reading bad reviews, for instance!), but I don't think people should be criticised for being honest about how it affects them.  Martin didn't even criticise fans - he just said how he was affected.

Now for all I know Martin is a complete arse in real life, and totally deserving of criticism - I don't know him or any of them, and obviously have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.  But on paper, it looks as if he has just stated his feelings and is being slated for having those feelings, including by Benedict (with some quite strong words, like "weak" and "pathetic"). 

If this is what's intended, then again, I'm surprised.  Even if there has been some rift, and Martin is an awful person, I'm kind of surprised.  It would be perfectly easy for Benedict to talk about how it does or doesn't affect him personally, without criticising Martin.  I'm disappointed ... but also still a little bit suspicious of the writer's angle. 

(And Susi, you are right to not bother with the comments!  I had a look and wish I hadn't!). 

If I'm being blunt, there are other reasons that would put me off Benedict, rather than this.
You are right, @Liberty, we don't really know these people.
But it strikes me that Martin is fairly thick skinned, he has the reputation of bluntly speaking his mind and it has never bothered Benedict before.
We know the situation is different because of the Amanda-Martin split, but we have no evidence that the Sherlock team have taken sides.
I would be more bothered about a star upsetting fan, particularly a vulnerable one.  I mean fairly directly, NOT just by speaking their mind on an issue.

Oh infamous cases...I think the first was dicussed on my old forum.
I was going to say it was when he was on the GN show, but I honestly don't remember if it was actually Rossie or even Alan Carr.
Anyhow, he related a story about how an asexual guy had approached him and thanked him for his representation of Sherlock Holmes and Bendedict quipped:  I just thought he maybe should get out more.
Now I don't actually know if he meant that about the character of the guy...but either way it's not very nice and to repeat the story on prime time, TV was awful!  But at the time, I just put it down to 'foot-in-mouth' Benedict, as he very much does have that reputation.
There was an awful story on Twitter about a fan who had won the right to have dinner with Benedict.  She took her pal. When they got to the charity event, they were there with a whole table of other people and BC was with Olivia. This was post Olivia-split, but we know they remained friends and I asssumed she was linked with the same charity.  Anyhow, at one point the girl went on her phone and apparently Olivia shouted at her : I hope you're not tweetng about this. At which point Benedict stormed out and said: I don't like being stalked. Again I thought: partly Olivia, partly phone etiquette(tho the girl had just being checking on a sick friend!) and partly BC touchy about Olivia...oh I think he had initially just gone out for a smoke anyway, but then decided he wasn't going to stay.
Then there is video footage of him refusing to sign what he considered was an awful photo of himself. But again, I don't think he meant to be awful to the poor, mortified fan!

Yes, we have to remember that many fans have met BC and the vast majority have had positive experiences.
My own best Sherlockian pal had a wonderful experience with him...though she's right off him now! But that's just her, she went onto Mark and currently it's Andrew!

Possibly we're all second guessing.
But I don't really see that.  
I definitely only get the feeling that something possibly changed between S3 and S4...and we all know what did change then- Amanda and Martin's stautus.  Though they are supposed to have remained good friends.
Anyway, if we get more Sherlock, I honestly don't care.

Oh sorry I did mean to say that in one of my fb groups, some fans are commenting that they felt BC seemed very uncomfortable on GN last night and also when he was on with Eddie...I can't say I noticed on either occasion.

Oh and a funny aside:  I've just looked up where Martin is supposed to live now and it's really not very far from Benedict! I know Mark lives fairly close to Benedict, too.

Last edited by besleybean (April 21, 2018 2:00 pm)