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April 20, 2018 11:15 am  #21


Re: Recent interview extracts

Well, what is not classy on normal, but categoric disapproval of somebody else´s opinion?
They are not bound by some contact to always agree on things.
Also, Ben too has seen loads of disgusting fan behaviour - and he is still able to avoid generalisation of all fans on these terms.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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April 20, 2018 11:42 am  #22


Re: Recent interview extracts

The only time I have seen generalising of all fans on these terms are in your posts. 

No, they are not bound to always agree. And this is what makes this discussions a bit difficult - you draw these black or white conclusions that are false and that I have to argue against. Saying that I am disappointed that Ben has criticised Martin openly in an interview does not equal that I think they should always agree on all things. Could you please only argue against what I am actually writing instead of against these conclusions you draw yourself?

I think it was disappoinsting that Ben criticised Martin the way he did. That doesn't mean he has to agree with him, but that he should be professional and classy enough to a) not criticise him publically and b) not criticise him publically for a statement he only heard a one-sentence summary of from an interviewer, and thus do not really know much about.


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April 20, 2018 12:33 pm  #23


Re: Recent interview extracts

You are entirely entitled to your feelings of disappointment and I am not arguing with that.

Still, as I stated in my first post, I don´t see anything wrong with criticising an opinion, if that doesn´t get personal - and that´s all Benedict did. Actors usually state their views publicly, so no surprise either if Benedict didn´t held his disapproval secret. What would be the point of an interview, if he couldn´t tell what he thinks? Why should he be falsely diplomatic and "classy" if he doesn´t feel that way?

So for me, there´s nothing wrong with that interview. And as a fan, I am glad that somebody decided to speak in favour of us. No disappointment here, for sure.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
     Thread Starter
 

April 20, 2018 2:06 pm  #24


Re: Recent interview extracts

I have listened to and read what we've got to go on, and what he is saying is pretty vague.  It's something I've noticed before, that Benedict is very good at speaking and lovely to listen to, and can seemingly talk on at length and sound knowledgeable about any question, but sometimes when you actually try to get to the bottom of what he said, it is actually a bit waffly.  This is not a criticism ... he's an actor, not a politician, and I love that he is able to speak so eloquently and takes the trouble to give these extensive answers so pleasantly.  I do wonder if there was a misunderstanding here and whatever he was trying to say didn't come across, or if he misunderstood the questions.   It's not the first time I've felt that his answers don't quite make sense ... although I think some of the difficulty is in the way the question is presented.  (It seem Martin wasn't just talking about people demanding they get together, but about people being unpleasant about them if they didn't). 

Really it boils down to Martin saying that he finds some of the unpleasant stuff bothers him and makes it less fun for him, and Benedict saying that he doesn't pay attention to it, and it doesn't bother him, and he doesn't think he has to pander to fans.   They're not really at odds with each other.  (And I still think that maybe Benedict genuinely hasn't come across the unpleasant stuff.  It's only a tiny section of the fanbase, after all). 

But I agree, Vhanja, that there does seem to be something off about the way he talks about Martin.  Perhaps it's just due to being put on the spot. 

 

April 20, 2018 7:39 pm  #25


Re: Recent interview extracts

Yeah, I will have to cling to the fact that he was put on the spot and had to answer on the fly, and thus perhaps misunderstood what the interviewer was actually saying. 

Ben is of course very much allowed his opinion regarding fandom not posing any kind of challenge or problem to him. But that also mean that Martin is allowed his opinion that some parts of the fandom does seems challenging or problematic to him. Neither of those opinions should be labelled "weak", people are allowed to feel whatever they feel.

And I do not feel as if Ben spoke in defense of me as a fan, because I do not relate to the so-called fans that Martin talk about in any way. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

April 20, 2018 8:00 pm  #26


Re: Recent interview extracts

It seems that Benedict has not changes his views about Martin's statements. The whole tone of the interview is quite unusual for him, much sharper than usual. And I feel that indeed something happened between the two of them whatever it may have been:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/benedict-cumberbatch-privilege-marvel-muscles-martin-freemans/


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

April 20, 2018 8:02 pm  #27


Re: Recent interview extracts

Liberty wrote:

It's something I've noticed before, that Benedict is very good at speaking and lovely to listen to, and can seemingly talk on at length and sound knowledgeable about any question, but sometimes when you actually try to get to the bottom of what he said, it is actually a bit waffly.

 

I find it to be one of his endearing traits, to be honest. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


Liberty wrote:

 Really it boils down to Martin saying that he finds some of the unpleasant stuff bothers him and makes it less fun for him, and Benedict saying that he doesn't pay attention to it, and it doesn't bother him, and he doesn't think he has to pander to fans.   They're not really at odds with each other.  (And I still think that maybe Benedict genuinely hasn't come across the unpleasant stuff.  It's only a tiny section of the fanbase, after all). 

 

Then what is the problem? One is bothered by things, the other is not - that´s all it is.

I don´t believe Ben hasn´t come across any unpleasant stuff, if I consider what vile haters are after is wife. The difference is that he doesn´t accuse the whole fanbase for the actions of those few, IMHO.

 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
     Thread Starter
 

April 20, 2018 8:12 pm  #28


Re: Recent interview extracts

SusiGo wrote:

It seems that Benedict has not changes his views about Martin's statements. The whole tone of the interview is quite unusual for him, much sharper than usual. And I feel that indeed something happened between the two of them whatever it may have been:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/benedict-cumberbatch-privilege-marvel-muscles-martin-freemans/

Don´t they just repeat what was said in the original interview, changing a wording a bit?

Still, comments under the article show very well, who really abuses these actors - it´s a general audience, not their dedicated fans.


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
     Thread Starter
 

April 20, 2018 8:16 pm  #29


Re: Recent interview extracts

No, this is actual recent newspaper interview. The other quotes were from filmed interviews during the Marvel promo tour. I am glad I did not read the comments but I can imagine the poison to be found there.
 

Last edited by SusiGo (April 20, 2018 8:16 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

April 20, 2018 8:21 pm  #30


Re: Recent interview extracts

I would like to hope that Benedict and Martin are good enough friends that they can just be honest...I don't really know how much of a direct criticism it is, or least any sign of a deep rift...


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April 20, 2018 9:17 pm  #31


Re: Recent interview extracts

besleybean wrote:

I would like to hope that Benedict and Martin are good enough friends that they can just be honest...I don't really know how much of a direct criticism it is, or least any sign of a deep rift...

Well, I reserve my judgement for later too, when (and if) more will be known about this.
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
     Thread Starter
 

April 21, 2018 7:29 am  #32


Re: Recent interview extracts

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, as it's still the writer's words that it's a criticism of Martin (and the writer's words that Martin "grumbled to me"), making me wonder if the writer's trying to stir things up!   And I still don't think Ben actually addresses it ... Martin wasn't talking about fan expectations, so much as (trying to find a more polite way to put it than he did!) the fact that they accuse them of being awful people if they don't do what's expected.   Now, we know this sort of thing exists ... but in my ventures into the fandom outside this forum, the term "queerbaiting" was thrown about quite a lot, and more unpleasant accusations too - mainly aimed at the writers, I think.  But you can see Martin feeling the strain in that interview I posted on the other thread, where he talked about being called homophobic for denying the "romance".  And of course, if Benedict doesn't engage with it, he won't have any idea of what's gone on.  But we here, do know about it, even if the general public don't. 

But yes, I do agree there is a hint of negativity towards Martin there, and if he really is criticising him, then I do think that's a bit off.   I realise that you must have to develop a hard skin in showbusiness (I can't imagine it's fun reading bad reviews, for instance!), but I don't think people should be criticised for being honest about how it affects them.  Martin didn't even criticise fans - he just said how he was affected.

Now for all I know Martin is a complete arse in real life, and totally deserving of criticism - I don't know him or any of them, and obviously have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.  But on paper, it looks as if he has just stated his feelings and is being slated for having those feelings, including by Benedict (with some quite strong words, like "weak" and "pathetic"). 

If this is what's intended, then again, I'm surprised.  Even if there has been some rift, and Martin is an awful person, I'm kind of surprised.  It would be perfectly easy for Benedict to talk about how it does or doesn't affect him personally, without criticising Martin.  I'm disappointed ... but also still a little bit suspicious of the writer's angle. 

(And Susi, you are right to not bother with the comments!  I had a look and wish I hadn't!). 

 

April 21, 2018 8:34 am  #33


Re: Recent interview extracts

Liberty, I agere with you everything you have written, you put my exact thoughts on paper. 

I will still try to hold out judgement and give him the benefit of the doubt. But that seems to be less and less possible, since he has now done the same thing twice, with progressivly stronger wordings. 

Right now I'm just terrribly disappointed and my respect for, and interest in, Benedict, has decreased quite a bit because of it. It might change, either just through time or because this is all some great misunderstanding, but right now this is not sitting well with me at all.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

April 21, 2018 9:45 am  #34


Re: Recent interview extracts

If I'm being blunt, there are other reasons that would put me off Benedict, rather than this.
You are right, @Liberty, we don't really know these people.
But it strikes me that Martin is fairly thick skinned, he has the reputation of bluntly speaking his mind and it has never bothered Benedict before.
We know the situation is different because of the Amanda-Martin split, but we have no evidence that the Sherlock team have taken sides.
I would be more bothered about a star upsetting fan, particularly a vulnerable one.  I mean fairly directly, NOT just by speaking their mind on an issue.


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April 21, 2018 9:57 am  #35


Re: Recent interview extracts

I'm having some difficulty with it because Benedict has always come across to me as lovely, charming and respectful and this seems out of character. (Which is why I'm still wondering if there's some sort of misunderstanding or misinterpretation).   I was watching the Graham Norton interview and he was great on that, but I still had these words at the back of my mind. 

What other reasons, BB?  (If you feel it's best not to say, don't answer http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png
.  Maybe I'm better living in ignorance!).
 

 

April 21, 2018 10:12 am  #36


Re: Recent interview extracts

Oh infamous cases...I think the first was dicussed on my old forum.
I was going to say it was when he was on the GN show, but I honestly don't remember if it was actually Rossie or even Alan Carr.
Anyhow, he related a story about how an asexual guy had approached him and thanked him for his representation of Sherlock Holmes and Bendedict quipped:  I just thought he maybe should get out more.
Now I don't actually know if he meant that about the character of the guy...but either way it's not very nice and to repeat the story on prime time, TV was awful!  But at the time, I just put it down to 'foot-in-mouth' Benedict, as he very much does have that reputation.
There was an awful story on Twitter about a fan who had won the right to have dinner with Benedict.  She took her pal. When they got to the charity event, they were there with a whole table of other people and BC was with Olivia. This was post Olivia-split, but we know they remained friends and I asssumed she was linked with the same charity.  Anyhow, at one point the girl went on her phone and apparently Olivia shouted at her : I hope you're not tweetng about this. At which point Benedict stormed out and said: I don't like being stalked. Again I thought: partly Olivia, partly phone etiquette(tho the girl had just being checking on a sick friend!) and partly BC touchy about Olivia...oh I think he had initially just gone out for a smoke anyway, but then decided he wasn't going to stay.
Then there is video footage of him refusing to sign what he considered was an awful photo of himself. But again, I don't think he meant to be awful to the poor, mortified fan!


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April 21, 2018 11:00 am  #37


Re: Recent interview extracts

I didn't know about any of those stories!  It does sound as if he's not always perfectly charming, although 99% of the time is much better than most! 

Now you mention it, I do remember something from ages and ages ago ... an interview with him, where he was mildly critical about some fans when he was being interviewed (in a restaurant?), calling them "the florals".  I took it with a pinch of salt, but I do suspect that he might have been expressing genuine feelings "off the record" before he became more media savvy.

It's funny that Martin's interview is seen as being critical of fans, while Benedict's is seen as being supportive.  Actually, I think the subtext in Benedict's seems to be that he thinks they shouldn't pay much attention to fans - if anything, he's a little dismissive of the fandom (although I completely get his point that artisitically it might not be the best choice to just give the fans what they want).
 

Last edited by Liberty (April 21, 2018 11:00 am)

 

April 21, 2018 11:04 am  #38


Re: Recent interview extracts

Yes, we have to remember that many fans have met BC and the vast majority have had positive experiences.
My own best Sherlockian pal had a wonderful experience with him...though she's right off him now! But that's just her, she went onto Mark and currently it's Andrew!


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April 21, 2018 11:42 am  #39


Re: Recent interview extracts

To me, the whole article seems off and not in character, tbh. Take for example the way he is talking about Weinstein. We know that he spoke out vehemently for #metoo, equal pay issues and so on but he never got personal. Now we have this at least twice in the article. 
For me, the whole style is somehow off. 

And I really do not want to go into a "who is the worse guy" but I found some things Martin has said in the past quite offensive. 

I have a feeling that there have been problems between them and/or in the Sherlock team for years which finally have come to the surface. Just my idea. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

April 21, 2018 12:01 pm  #40


Re: Recent interview extracts

Possibly we're all second guessing.
But I don't really see that.  
I definitely only get the feeling that something possibly changed between S3 and S4...and we all know what did change then- Amanda and Martin's stautus.  Though they are supposed to have remained good friends.
Anyway, if we get more Sherlock, I honestly don't care.

Oh sorry I did mean to say that in one of my fb groups, some fans are commenting that they felt BC seemed very uncomfortable on GN last night and also when he was on with Eddie...I can't say I noticed on either occasion.

Oh and a funny aside:  I've just looked up where Martin is supposed to live now and it's really not very far from Benedict! I know Mark lives fairly close to Benedict, too.

Last edited by besleybean (April 21, 2018 2:00 pm)


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