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January 21, 2017 12:21 pm  #81


Re: What is real in TFP?

Possibly you are more generous than me, I was just always suspicious of motives...some of which I have aired here.


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February 14, 2017 4:29 pm  #82


Re: What is real in TFP?


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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     Thread Starter
 

February 14, 2017 5:51 pm  #83


Re: What is real in TFP?

I think the rooms are real.
As usual, I don't see the point of them not being- they are part of the story.


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February 14, 2017 6:29 pm  #84


Re: What is real in TFP?

This is really interesting. I always tend to believe that nothing in Sherlock is accidential so the rooms and the way they are shown surely have a meaning.

And personally I find it intriguing that you can still find hints for (parts of?) S4 not being real.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

February 14, 2017 6:31 pm  #85


Re: What is real in TFP?

I maintain that anything is possible until absolutely proven wrong.  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
    I don't necessarily subscribe to EMP but Sherlock has tricked us before.


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"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
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"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
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February 14, 2017 6:34 pm  #86


Re: What is real in TFP?

Apart from TAB etc, when we are told it's MP...when have they tricked us?


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February 14, 2017 6:35 pm  #87


Re: What is real in TFP?

TSOT. The multi-laptop scene.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 14, 2017 6:38 pm  #88


Re: What is real in TFP?

I don't really consider it either a trick nor to be a massive scene, anyway.
It's just a way of showing a point, a thought process.
It is really 221 B, all of the characters really exist.
Yes Sherlock is imagining what Mycroft would say to him, that's all.
Most importantly: the story is real.

Last edited by besleybean (February 14, 2017 6:39 pm)


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February 14, 2017 6:58 pm  #89


Re: What is real in TFP?

besleybean wrote:

Apart from TAB etc, when we are told it's MP...when have they tricked us?

TLD


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

February 14, 2017 7:01 pm  #90


Re: What is real in TFP?

In what sense 'tricks'?
You mean Sherlock employing a plan to catch Culverton?
John(and Sherlock) speaking to Mary?
Mourning people still 'see' the dead person all the time.
 


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February 14, 2017 7:08 pm  #91


Re: What is real in TFP?

besleybean wrote:

I don't really consider it either a trick nor to be a massive scene, anyway.
It's just a way of showing a point, a thought process.
It is really 221 B, all of the characters really exist.
Yes Sherlock is imagining what Mycroft would say to him, that's all.
Most importantly: the story is real.

Mycroft is not in that scene. Real John goes upstairs from Mrs Hudson's kitchen and enters the living room with the multiple laptops as MP John. Proof is that he is wearing completely different clothes from the scene before. This takes place on the morning after the stag night.
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 14, 2017 7:11 pm  #92


Re: What is real in TFP?

So Sherlock imagining addressing John with his thought processes?
I can live with that.
I certainly don't feel tricked and it doesn't represent for me an extended MP.


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February 14, 2017 7:19 pm  #93


Re: What is real in TFP?

SusiGo wrote:

besleybean wrote:

I don't really consider it either a trick nor to be a massive scene, anyway.
It's just a way of showing a point, a thought process.
It is really 221 B, all of the characters really exist.
Yes Sherlock is imagining what Mycroft would say to him, that's all.
Most importantly: the story is real.

Mycroft is not in that scene. Real John goes upstairs from Mrs Hudson's kitchen and enters the living room with the multiple laptops as MP John. Proof is that he is wearing completely different clothes from the scene before. This takes place on the morning after the stag night.
 

What's most important to me about that scene is that it is never explained. Remember how long it had taken us to realize it's not real.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

February 14, 2017 7:19 pm  #94


Re: What is real in TFP?

Besley, I never said it was about feeling tricked. I do not mind at all. My point is that a lot of people did not realise it was MP. We have a whole thread where this was discussed before anyone realised it was in his head.

Last edited by SusiGo (February 14, 2017 7:21 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 14, 2017 7:22 pm  #95


Re: What is real in TFP?

I know, I can only repeat it hardly seems a crucial point to me: his thought process really happened and as I said, all the characters are real...how they showed it was just clever cinematography, as far as I'm concerned.
Sometimes there is a fine line between real and not.
We had a whole thread about half of HLV not being real when it was and I always thought it was.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

February 14, 2017 7:56 pm  #96


Re: What is real in TFP?

Which is fine but other people may still think it was not. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 14, 2017 7:59 pm  #97


Re: What is real in TFP?

You don't believe Sherlock shot CAM in the face, even though in TLD, John specifically tells Greg Sherlock did this?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

February 14, 2017 8:35 pm  #98


Re: What is real in TFP?

I think we need to accept that like with any other piece of art, with Sherlock there is a lot of space for interpretation. Analyzing the rooms can lead you to the assumption that not everything we saw was real. I think that is legit, (and interesting but that might just be me), and discussing it is legit  (and fun) as well. Just like not believing it at all is legit.

But in my mind, just repeating "But I don't think so" or "But I think it is" does not bring the discussion forward, though.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

February 14, 2017 8:37 pm  #99


Re: What is real in TFP?

Well the story doesn't make sense to me if those scenes aren't real.
Eurus would be so less important and to me she is vital to the whole story...as Mycroft points out to Sherlock.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

February 14, 2017 8:44 pm  #100


Re: What is real in TFP?

But we should allow that to some people the story does not make sense the way it is presented (not me necessarily). Which has been reflected by many reviews, not just by fans. As Schmiezi said, with every work of art there are several interpretations, so why not with this one? It is fine if you find complete sense in one reading. But there may be people who love to follow other readings. 

Btw, I find this quite funny:

http://johntheantivirus.tumblr.com/post/157237991333/isitandwonder-yume-chaaan
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

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