BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » What is real in TFP?

besleybean · January 21, 2017 12:21 pm

Possibly you are more generous than me, I was just always suspicious of motives...some of which I have aired here.

SusiGo · February 14, 2017 4:29 pm

About rooms in TFP (and HLV):

http://gosherlocked.tumblr.com/post/157104575431/sherlock-the-impossible-rooms

besleybean · February 14, 2017 5:51 pm

I think the rooms are real.
As usual, I don't see the point of them not being- they are part of the story.

Schmiezi · February 14, 2017 6:29 pm

SusiGo wrote:
About rooms in TFP (and HLV):

http://gosherlocked.tumblr.com/post/157104575431/sherlock-the-impossible-rooms

This is really interesting. I always tend to believe that nothing in Sherlock is accidential so the rooms and the way they are shown surely have a meaning.

And personally I find it intriguing that you can still find hints for (parts of?) S4 not being real.

tonnaree · February 14, 2017 6:31 pm

I maintain that anything is possible until absolutely proven wrong. I don't necessarily subscribe to EMP but Sherlock has tricked us before.

besleybean · February 14, 2017 6:34 pm

Apart from TAB etc, when we are told it's MP...when have they tricked us?

SusiGo · February 14, 2017 6:35 pm

TSOT. The multi-laptop scene.

besleybean · February 14, 2017 6:38 pm

I don't really consider it either a trick nor to be a massive scene, anyway.
It's just a way of showing a point, a thought process.
It is really 221 B, all of the characters really exist.
Yes Sherlock is imagining what Mycroft would say to him, that's all.
Most importantly: the story is real.

Last edited by besleybean (February 14, 2017 6:39 pm)

Schmiezi · February 14, 2017 6:58 pm

besleybean wrote:
Apart from TAB etc, when we are told it's MP...when have they tricked us?

TLD

besleybean · February 14, 2017 7:01 pm

In what sense 'tricks'?
You mean Sherlock employing a plan to catch Culverton?
John(and Sherlock) speaking to Mary?
Mourning people still 'see' the dead person all the time.

SusiGo · February 14, 2017 7:08 pm

besleybean wrote:
I don't really consider it either a trick nor to be a massive scene, anyway.
It's just a way of showing a point, a thought process.
It is really 221 B, all of the characters really exist.
Yes Sherlock is imagining what Mycroft would say to him, that's all.
Most importantly: the story is real.

Mycroft is not in that scene. Real John goes upstairs from Mrs Hudson's kitchen and enters the living room with the multiple laptops as MP John. Proof is that he is wearing completely different clothes from the scene before. This takes place on the morning after the stag night.

besleybean · February 14, 2017 7:11 pm

So Sherlock imagining addressing John with his thought processes?
I can live with that.
I certainly don't feel tricked and it doesn't represent for me an extended MP.

Schmiezi · February 14, 2017 7:19 pm

SusiGo wrote:
besleybean wrote:
I don't really consider it either a trick nor to be a massive scene, anyway.
It's just a way of showing a point, a thought process.
It is really 221 B, all of the characters really exist.
Yes Sherlock is imagining what Mycroft would say to him, that's all.
Most importantly: the story is real.
Mycroft is not in that scene. Real John goes upstairs from Mrs Hudson's kitchen and enters the living room with the multiple laptops as MP John. Proof is that he is wearing completely different clothes from the scene before. This takes place on the morning after the stag night.

What's most important to me about that scene is that it is never explained. Remember how long it had taken us to realize it's not real.

SusiGo · February 14, 2017 7:19 pm

Besley, I never said it was about feeling tricked. I do not mind at all. My point is that a lot of people did not realise it was MP. We have a whole thread where this was discussed before anyone realised it was in his head.

Last edited by SusiGo (February 14, 2017 7:21 pm)

besleybean · February 14, 2017 7:22 pm

I know, I can only repeat it hardly seems a crucial point to me: his thought process really happened and as I said, all the characters are real...how they showed it was just clever cinematography, as far as I'm concerned.
Sometimes there is a fine line between real and not.
We had a whole thread about half of HLV not being real when it was and I always thought it was.

SusiGo · February 14, 2017 7:56 pm

Which is fine but other people may still think it was not.

besleybean · February 14, 2017 7:59 pm

You don't believe Sherlock shot CAM in the face, even though in TLD, John specifically tells Greg Sherlock did this?

Schmiezi · February 14, 2017 8:35 pm

I think we need to accept that like with any other piece of art, with Sherlock there is a lot of space for interpretation. Analyzing the rooms can lead you to the assumption that not everything we saw was real. I think that is legit, (and interesting but that might just be me), and discussing it is legit (and fun) as well. Just like not believing it at all is legit.

But in my mind, just repeating "But I don't think so" or "But I think it is" does not bring the discussion forward, though.

besleybean · February 14, 2017 8:37 pm

Well the story doesn't make sense to me if those scenes aren't real.
Eurus would be so less important and to me she is vital to the whole story...as Mycroft points out to Sherlock.

SusiGo · February 14, 2017 8:44 pm

But we should allow that to some people the story does not make sense the way it is presented (not me necessarily). Which has been reflected by many reviews, not just by fans. As Schmiezi said, with every work of art there are several interpretations, so why not with this one? It is fine if you find complete sense in one reading. But there may be people who love to follow other readings.

Btw, I find this quite funny:

http://johntheantivirus.tumblr.com/post/157237991333/isitandwonder-yume-chaaan