BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Still unexplained secrets?

Lis · February 9, 2017 5:24 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Well, we have been presented with lots of evidence that Sherlock is a genius. And people loved it. And then suddenly he is the family idiot and his sister is the big child genius? And we do not get a scrap of evidence? Sorry, but that does not work for me. This character does not sit well with me - not because of her violence - but because to me she does not make sense. We are told she was brilliant as a child but we only see her as lonely and cruel.
We get to see Sherlock's brilliance and even Magnussen's mind palace, we get to see Mycroft speaking Serbian after two hours. And with Eurus we are meant to just believe?

I don't think Sherlock is portrayed as the family idiot, as you say he has been shown to be brilliant throughout the series and just because he has sibings who may be smarter than him that doesn't make Sherlock any less brillant. I'm not quite sure where I stand on the whole secret sister plot really but in any case based soley on how smart Sherlock and Mycroft are I can easily buy that Eurus is and was incredibly smart as well. Her actions as a grown up indicate that she is incredibly clever so personally I'm happy to take Mycroft's word for it that she was incredibly clever as a child as well.

Schmiezi · February 9, 2017 6:36 pm

besleybean wrote:
I certainly don't think Sherlock has ever been presented as the family idiot.
Possibly we would have seen a lot more of Eurus if the show had continued.
I have been incredibly inspired by her and am so enjoying writing my fan fic based on her.

Could you please stop writing like the show is officially ended already? It is simply not true. The team does not know if or when they will continue and neither do we.

besleybean · February 9, 2017 6:38 pm

I know, but I'm not expecting much and I have the right to that view!
Okay, if we get any future episodes, maybe we'll get a lot more of Eurus.

tobeornot221b · February 9, 2017 6:42 pm

As for Sherlock being presented as the family idiot:
Yes, I think they gave us reason to believe it.

For example: (Thanks to Ariane De Vere!)

(from TEH)
MYCROFT: Don’t be smart.
SHERLOCK: That takes me back. (In a little boy’s voice) “Don’t be smart, Sherlock. I’m the smart one.”
MYCROFT (glowering at him): I am the smart one.
(Sherlock looks off to the side reflectively.)
SHERLOCK: I used to think I was an idiot.
MYCROFT: Both of us thought you were an idiot, Sherlock. We had nothing else to go on ’til we met other children.

(from HLV)
YOUNG SHERLOCK (angrily): I’m not stupid.
MYCROFT (sternly): You’re a very stupid little boy.
(He stands up and walks around the table.)
MYCROFT: Mummy and Daddy are very cross ...

besleybean · February 9, 2017 6:44 pm

But a genius will see a lesser genius as an idiot...also a bit of brotherly banter.
Plus, maybe Mycroft was trying to trigger a memory in Sherlock.

tobeornot221b · February 9, 2017 6:46 pm

As I understand it, it wasn't just Mycroft who believed Sherlock was stupid. Their parents believed it, too.

besleybean · February 9, 2017 6:47 pm

I don't see that at all.
Plus, he was the grown up, remember?

tobeornot221b · February 9, 2017 6:52 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:
You don't see it?

(from HLV)
YOUNG SHERLOCK (angrily): I’m not stupid.
MYCROFT (sternly): You’re a very stupid little boy.
(He stands up and walks around the table.)
MYCROFT: Mummy and Daddy are very cross ...

besleybean · February 9, 2017 6:54 pm

Yes, that's Mycroft's opinion and if you remember in ASIP, Sherlock claims he wasn't the one to upset Daddy and Mummy.

Schmiezi · February 9, 2017 7:00 pm

besleybean wrote:
I know, but I'm not expecting much and I have the right to that view!
Okay, if we get any future episodes, maybe we'll get a lot more of Eurus.

Thank you! :-)

Oh I just got an idea.
Maybe Mycroft talks Sherlock into being stupid so he won't become the same broken disturbed genius as Eurus.

tobeornot221b · February 9, 2017 7:00 pm

Anyway, I got the impression that the writers wanted us to see Sherlock as the family idiot.

SusiGo · February 9, 2017 7:02 pm

I agree, tobe. The way Sherlock is presented throughout the show as an adult has nothing to do with the way he is described as a child. Mycroft talks about him and Eurus being professionally assessed and found to be remarkable and a genius. He does not mention Sherlock. Honestly, this is the first SH story I have ever seen or heard of in which Sherlock Holmes has two siblings who both outshine him in intellect. I know, in Canon Mycroft is said to be cleverer than Sherlock, but a sister who is better than everyone?

I still believe that Eurus is a part of himself. She is an exaggerated version of the Sherlock we meet in ASIP: cold, a thinking machine, ruthless, governed by her brain alone.

besleybean · February 9, 2017 7:02 pm

@Tobe I didn't, so possibly we just have to agree to disagree on that one.

@Susi: I think Eurus was a very sick child who was failed by the system. Thank goodness Sherlock seems to have been able to reach out to her and begin her healing.

Last edited by besleybean (February 9, 2017 7:04 pm)

Lis · February 9, 2017 7:04 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
besleybean wrote:
I certainly don't think Sherlock has ever been presented as the family idiot.
Possibly we would have seen a lot more of Eurus if the show had continued.
I have been incredibly inspired by her and am so enjoying writing my fan fic based on her.
Could you please stop writing like the show is officially ended already? It is simply not true. The team does not know if or when they will continue and neither do we.

Yeah I do have to agree here, we have not had confirmation either way as to whether TFP was the last episode or we will get a series 5. Of course everyone is entitled to their beliefs as to what will happen but until it's stated one way or the other I think we should keep an open mind.

tobeornot221b wrote:
As I understanf it, it wasn't just Mycroft who believed Sherlock was stupid. Their parents believed it, too.

I don't think his parents thought Sherlock was stupid, at least I've never seen anything to suggest this.

The scene in HLV isn't even Mycroft's opinion, it's Sherlock's thoughts and in that moment he thinks he has made a mistake (not seeing Mary for what she was and getting shot) so his getting called stupid is a projection of his own doubts about himself. Saying that, even if Sherlock personally thought that Mycroft thought he was stupid and maybe even that his parents thought that too that doesn't mean they actually do think he's stupid.

Last edited by Lis (February 9, 2017 7:06 pm)

besleybean · February 9, 2017 7:05 pm

OR certainly not that the writers want us to see him as stupid!

Schmiezi · February 9, 2017 7:13 pm

besleybean wrote:
OR certainly not that the writers want us to see him as stupid!

Why would they?

besleybean · February 9, 2017 7:14 pm

Exactly. I wasn't the one who said they did.

Lis · February 9, 2017 7:22 pm

Yeah, I don't equate Sherlock not being quite as smart as his extremely smart siblings (although I think this is debatable anyway) to him being the family idiot and I personally don't think this is what the writers have suggested either.

I think as a child Sherlock may have been the most "normal", he obviously had at least one friend, but I think he was still probably quite smart as he'd have to have been to become the genius he is as an adult. I think the events concerning Eurus and Victor might have made Sherlock lock away his human side allowing his intellect to develop more but I have no doubt that even if Victor had not been killed Sherlock would still be very smart.

Last edited by Lis (February 9, 2017 7:26 pm)

besleybean · February 9, 2017 7:24 pm

I agree...but can we call him Victor?!

Lis · February 9, 2017 7:26 pm

Ah yes, getting my names mixed up!