I think at that point John was still angry with Sherlock and probably thought and said all kinds of things about him that he didn't truly mean, like for example later in the episode when he said that Sherlock had killed Mary. I'm sure that when his thoughts are not consumed by anger and grief he doesn't actually see Sherlock as a monster.

True, but I still don't believe John truly sees Sherlock as a monster.

John also executed the cabbie so he can't really talk haha.

Last edited by Lis (February 2, 2017 8:07 pm)

Again, all true. I'm not debating who is above who in terms of morals, although personally I think they have both done some questionable and also very honourable things, it's just my personal belief that whatever Sherlock may have done John doesn't truly see him as a monster...and neither do I.

Lis wrote:

I think at that point John was still angry with Sherlock and probably thought and said all kinds of things about him that he didn't truly mean, like for example later in the episode when he said that Sherlock had killed Mary. I'm sure that when his thoughts are not consumed by anger and grief he doesn't actually see Sherlock as a monster.

I generally agree, but I´m still intrigued by the wording in that scene. Mary / John´s subconcious literally said: "Despite being the cleverest man, he is not a monster...." 
To me it seems as if the main issue John has with Sherlock is his cleverness... he regards this cleverness as monstrous.
John saw many atrocities in the actual war, so Sherlock killing Magnussen can´t be his real issue - he experienced much worse.
 

Yes, I am only glad that by the end of S 4, we are all heart...with all of the characters.

He left voluntarily!

I just took it that Billy left because he couldn't stand Sherlock rampaging about.

I am still trying to wrap my head around Sherlock's behaviour in this episode. How much of his behaviour was down to drug-induced paranoia and how much was deliberate?

I am in particular talking about him losing it when he realises he wasn't visited by Culverton-Smith's daughter. Was he really losing it or was he acting? Was everything he did part of the end game? Did he deduce that it wasn't Smith's daughter, that it would lead to a confrotation, that he acted paranoid, that John would beat him up and that would end him in Smith's hopsital so John could save him?

It doesn't add up, because there is nothing telling us that he didn't believe "Smith's daughter" then and there. He does seem honestly surprised.

Then again, if he had actually been visited by his daughter, how did he plan that showdown to go? And how would that help with his end game of getting John back? Maybe he imagined Smith would get desperate and set guards on Sherlock, and John could rescue him from there. Perhaps that was his original plan?

What do you guys think?

Again, I'm due for a rewatch, and it's something I haven't made my mind up over yet.    I do think he must have known more than he was letting on, because he wasn't planning for Culverton to be exposed at that point - he was planning to get further into danger so that John would save him.   He had set up the walking stick to record before going to the mortuary, so seems to have planned becoming a patient, John leaving it there, etc. 

But I agree, he doesn't seem to have cottoned on to the puzzle of Culverton's daughter. 

Not a headscratcher per se but interesting: 

http://finalproblem.tumblr.com/post/163725592904/at-127-in-this-video-sian-says-what-kind-of

I definitely hear Ilsa or Elsa, not Ursa. So the nameless therapist has a name after all and one that might be another hint to TPLoSH.