besleybean, of course we can't conclude that for sure. But we also can't be sure that she meant Sherlock. Not, if this sentence wasn't part of the recording.

Yes, I'm not sure how it could be directed at anyone else.

She uses his name.
In school, we teach our kids that if somebody addresses you by name- you must pay attention.

Lola Red wrote:

I know we tend not to believe anyone involved in the creation of this show (and with good reason), but Amanda said it was more or less an instinctual reaction from Mary: having the possibility to save someone she cares about and thus doing it, not really having the time to consider the consequences.
If we thus except that in the Sherlock-Universe you can jump in front of an impeding bullet to safe someone you care for, here is a sinister little detail: Mycroft did not move.

edit: sorry for going off-topic, I'll stop now

Everyone was stone in that scene, even the gal holding the gun, actually.  Sherlock was running his mouth, and everyone was blinking, but until the trigger finger got happy and Mary threw herself at Sherlock, they all looked like Madame Tussaud's work.

 

KeepersPrice wrote:

I was suspicious of Mary, too until this episode. There are, and probably still are, those who think she might have been one of Moriarty's assassins at the pool; but now I really think she did want to leave her past behind and attempt a 'normal' life with John. There still could be a twist on this in the end but I no longer think so. Now her message tells us she is desperate to "Save John Watson" from something. She gives this to Sherlock as a mission/case. She doesn't say, "Take care of John for me after I'm gone". She doesn't even mention Rosie, so baby must not have even been in the picture when she made the recording. No, she knows something (from her before-life) and knows John needs to be saved from something real and dangerous - not just his own folly or stubbornness. And of course, there are those already pointing out that "Hell" is a real place in Norway; and I can also add there is a town called "Hell" in the Grand Caymans because I've been there.

I've been to Hell's Canyon in Idaho, too. Hell can be a real destination, literally, figuratively, in this world, or the next.

I'm pretty old, and I've seen life come, and I've seen it go, so while I certainly don't pretend to understand every nuance of the human heart, I can't stop thinking about that old adage about how a tiger can't change his stripes. Or as a friend of mine once said about her soon-to-be-ex-husband, who had promised to change his ways but never did, "once an a**hole, always an a**hole". lololol  Ahem.

Poor Mary. She's actually a strong, interesting character, but the writers have had a field day with her from the first moment they decided to include her in their story. If she were real, she'd feel jerked around. God knows the viewers have.

But back on topic, the idea that John might have been cheating with that bus woman, which is what the writers wanted us to infer, is rather bizarre. We got no hint that J/M were unhappy in their marriage, even tho the baby had put lots of pressure on both of them (even tho neither of them seems to be employed, so presumably would have more energy to cope...  a subject for another day). It's funny that the writers included Bus Lady as the one John gets out of bed at 3AM to text, not Sherlock. Sherlock, who never sleeps and who wants John at his beck and call for the cases. Perhaps this is a small effort to shut up the Johnlockers (as if they could....), showing John to be straight and able to be swayed by an attractive female who apparently will wink at anyone on a bus.  Ridiculous.

I do wonder what they'll do with Bus Lady now. As I wondered about before, I just hope to god that isn't where John has been once he left the cemetery, leaving Molly at home with the baby. Urgh.
 

nakahara wrote:

Why must "Hell" be a town?

Why not a club, an establishment, a shop or a restaurant?

Or a state of mind.
But anyway, if Mary were talking about how Sherlock should go downtown to the Hell's Belle's strip club, why would she look so grim about it?
lol
 

Quite so.

Yes, it doesn't seem to fit with anything we've been shown.
I see  a flawed couple who love each other nonetheless...

Schmiezi wrote:

That's a good thought. If it meant "Go to hell and back to save John", why place it at such an odd spot? We knew about that already from the rest of Mary's Save-John pep-talk. IMO it only make sense if it has a different meaning. Hence my belief that it means "Go to hell, you f***ing b***ard"

Exactly.  IMO telling someone to go to hell never means anything else. Ever. If she had meant "you will need to go through hell to accomplish this saving of John", then she would have said something like that. But that grim face, all saggy wrinkles and strange hair, and the way she told him to go to hell, I think she could only have meant one thing--  yeah, he could attempt to save John, but hopefully, in the end, he'd pay, and pay big. (As you say, you f***ing b**tard).
 

Last edited by ancientsgate (January 4, 2017 9:24 pm)

Schmiezi wrote:

besleybean wrote:

Although after our little discussion...
The difference is:  Jim's initial appearance was meant for public consumption.
But both Mary's appearances were only meant for Sherlock.

I doubt that Mary's second appearance was meant for Sherlock. More like something Mary said when recording her speech. Something we saw but Sherlock did not.

I agree. And the more I think about it, the more I agree.