BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » TST Headscratchers

besleybean · January 2, 2017 4:10 pm

See my post above.

Yitzock · January 2, 2017 4:10 pm

But the terrorists would still think she's English, wouldn't they? That was all they ever knew, even if AJ did. He would know that they would think she's English, and know that they were talking about her.

besleybean · January 2, 2017 4:12 pm

Yes, I think?!

nakahara · January 2, 2017 4:13 pm

SusiGo wrote:
2. We see them in bed in TEH and HLV. Now they suddenly have switched sides.

Also, why do they sleep in such a weird manner? Separated in their own beds, not even embracing? That was a very cold-looking marriage there...

Vhanja · January 2, 2017 4:14 pm

Yes, I'm wondering about the glowing skull painting too. What was that?

nakahara · January 2, 2017 4:14 pm

Yitzock wrote:
But the terrorists would still think she's English, wouldn't they? That was all they ever knew, even if AJ did. He would know that they would think she's English, and know that they were talking about her.

I had a feeling that A.G.R.A. were close colleagues and that they knew their real identities, so why would AJ think Mary to be English? Also, why would terrorists think that? To them, these mercenaries could be anybody....

SusiGo · January 2, 2017 4:17 pm

nakahara wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
2. We see them in bed in TEH and HLV. Now they suddenly have switched sides.

Also, why do they sleep in such a weird manner? Separated in their own beds, not even embracing? That was a very cold-looking marriage there...

Well, it was not significantly better in HLV when John dreamt of Sherlock and woke up very aggro. The whole episode felt wrong, like watching it through a mirror. Distorted.

besleybean · January 2, 2017 4:17 pm

They said 'the English woman betrayed you'...AJ assumed Mary, so he obviously assumed that for some reason. They obviously thought she was English and maybe while he was being tortured half to death, AJ didn't feel like correcting their bad geography. She was working for the UK gov.

Lis · January 2, 2017 4:17 pm

besleybean wrote:
Possibly he thought the terrorists thought she was English, even though he knew she wasn't.
She spoke English with a convincing accent.
Or just the fact that they were freeing Brit Nats?

EDIT: I have speculated that Mary using dragon-slayer is another nod to her working with Mycroft.

That could make sense, he said they referred to her as the English woman so if she spoke in an English accent they would obviously assume she was English and even though he knew she wasn't he knew (or so he thought) who they were referring to.

The only other thing I can think is that she has been pretending to be English for a long time, before joining the AGRA team, and so they assumed she was English as well although I would have thought that point would have come up at some point whilst working together seeing as she described them as family but then again spies are notoriously secretive about themselves haha.

The dragon slayer definitely seemed to be a nod to her working with Mycroft but it just seemed a little weird to me.

Last edited by Lis (January 2, 2017 4:32 pm)

Mothonthemantel · January 2, 2017 4:19 pm

I decided during S03 that the line " you're not a puzzle solver you're a drama queen" was a writers autobiographical insert.

besleybean · January 2, 2017 4:20 pm

Huh?

Yitzock · January 2, 2017 4:21 pm

Same as what besley said on the English/accent thing.

nakahara wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
2. We see them in bed in TEH and HLV. Now they suddenly have switched sides.

Also, why do they sleep in such a weird manner? Separated in their own beds, not even embracing? That was a very cold-looking marriage there...

I don't think it was cold-looking at all, based on how they were lying in bed. at least in the scene where they're talking about the baby possibly being the antichrist. Married couples aren't constantly cuddling. Also, they're pretty exhausted from being awake at all hours taking care of the baby, so I doubt they'd really feel like embracing, either. They looked pretty normal in that respect, to my eyes. It's not something we often see on television, at least in shows I've seen, but I thought they seemed normal.

Last edited by Yitzock (January 2, 2017 4:22 pm)

Liberty · January 2, 2017 4:24 pm

You could be right, Moth!

I brought up the confusion about Mary being English over on the Mary thread ... I think the only logical thing is that the change to Mary wasn't her first change of identity. While she's working with AGRA she does have an English accent (I was expecting her to sound American).

Yitzock · January 2, 2017 4:28 pm

Yes, she does have the same accent as we hear her having in the rest of the show, so I think that anyone who would have encountered her during that time would have presumed her to be English.

Liberty · January 2, 2017 4:36 pm

It would mean that Rosamund wasn't her real name either of course (if she'd changed identity). However, your accent is English but you are not, could also just refer to her being born abroad but brought up in England. I seem to remember Mary Morstan from canon was born in India, but brought up in England (but I could be wrong!)

Yitzock · January 2, 2017 4:37 pm

Could be. I hadn't considered that, and I didn't know she was born in India in the original stories.

Last edited by Yitzock (January 2, 2017 4:37 pm)

besleybean · January 2, 2017 4:39 pm

And in those circumstances she would be still be described as English.
My best friend was born in India of English parents...well sorry, Scottish parents! She was brought up in England, but has now been in Scotland over 30 years. She sounds English and people assume she is!

Liberty · January 2, 2017 4:41 pm

I suppose the puzzle then, is why she ended up working for the CIA first, rather than MI5/6.

I listened again to the names of the agents, and it definitely sounds like Gabriel (male) to me, rather than Gabrielle. So just one English woman in the team, perhaps?

besleybean · January 2, 2017 4:43 pm

Which would make sense...

nakahara · January 2, 2017 5:04 pm

Another headscratcher:

- "Miss Me" CD. We know it was Mary´s message. Does that mean she was also responsible for the "Miss Me" messages all over Piccadilly Circus in HLV and TAB?

- did you notice how Sherlock casully mentions to Lestrade "I think Mary and the perpetrator (AJ) once worked together" and Lestrade lets it be? He does not investigate Mary at all? Does that mean Lestrade too knows about Mary´s past and ignores it? Does he know Mary shot Sherlock too?