BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary's death and final message

Liberty · January 4, 2017 10:09 pm

Maybe I was just having an overly simplistic viewpoint as well! I didn't check to see they were the same - just assumed there was only one aquarium trip. Well, it's partly that, and because as I remember, there's a change in tone in the aquarium shot. It doesn't fit with the stuff that's going on early in the show.

sherlocked · January 5, 2017 8:25 am

I just realized something re: Mary's final message: was it even meant to be watched after her death?? She doesn't talk with certainty about being dead. She talks about the fact that she might be gone. And she was gone for a while. She went onto an extended trip (almost) around the world. Couldn't she have sent the dvd to Sherlock before she left her husband and baby? We know that the dvd somehow got stuck in Mrs. Hudson's stack of post. However, we have no idea how long it has been sitting there. Why even including this little detail, anyway? How exactly does it advance the story telling if the DVD didn't reach Sherlock in time? The delay might at least indicate that Sherlock is a bit late on the case of saving John Watson.
I don't know if it will play out like this. But considering how deceptive everything is in this episode it probably can't be excluded, that the makers are playing fast and loose with our perception and assumptions. And a little twist like this would give Mary's trip a dramatic purpose. So far it seemed to be just a curious filler we could've done without because it killed precious time which could've been used for advancing the overall story. Or is there a specific dramatic reason for Ajay to catch up with Mary and be killed in North Africa?
I still don't enjoy the episode very much as a standalone watching experience because atmosphere and pacing are so noticeably off and there are too many extended action scenes for my taste. I actually have to force myself to re-watch certain scenes again - something which in the past was only the case with The Blind Banker. And while I disliked the overall story arc of S3, I always enjoy to re-watch the episodes of S3. TEH is one of the funniest Sherlock episodes ever IMO and I got drawn into it right from the beginning. Unfortunately, so far I didn't enjoy TST at all as a viewing experience. But I will now postpone overall judgement until I've seen all episodes of S4. TST might well turn out to be a tv experiment which plays artfully with our perception of reality. What we have been shown might've been as doctored as the CAM shooting footage. Sherlock's sentence "That's not at all what happened" after seeing the manipulated CAM footage and his cute speech to Rosie Watson - "You see but you do not observe" might acquire added significance in following episodes.

Last edited by sherlocked (January 5, 2017 11:23 am)

Liberty · January 5, 2017 9:33 am

Good point, Sherlocked. It would certainly solve that puzzle about how Mary got the DVD to him. She does say that she's "probably dead", but that may have been because she thought Ajay or somebody else would finally catch up with her. She could have made the DVD and posted it before going to meet Sherlock when he found the AGRA stick, I suppose.

However, if that was the case, wouldn't she have intercepted it when she got back? Or told him not to watch it until after her death?

I think the chasing round the world part was to tie in with the Samarra story. Mary is told she's a dead woman walking in London, runs away to a completely random place, and is staring death in the face again there, but thinks she escapes it. Then Sherlock brings her back to London, where death is waiting for her. I do think that setting the AJ confrontation abroad worked well in terms of that story.

sherlocked · January 5, 2017 9:47 am

Liberty, yes, I also wonder if she wouldn't have talked to Sherlock about the dvd if she really sent it before or while she was on the run. And Sherlock clearly doesn't expect a message from Mary. He thinks it's from Moriarty. But we should keep the time delay because it was sitting in Mrs. Hudson's stack in mind. The delay might turn out be meaningful somehow.

TheOtherOne · January 5, 2017 9:51 am

Yes it was probably recorded before Mary ran away - in the video she's wearing the same outfit as the scene where Sherlock confronts her about AJ and AGRA.

I also think there's a possibility Sherlock did not watch that video after the aquarium/ death scene. He might have watched it during Mary's extended absence from London.

During the video, Mrs. Hudson seemed pretty calm. She even gave a look of surprise when Mary said "if you're watching this I'm probably dead". That's pretty odd for someone who was supposedly crying about this very same friend being dead just a minute ago.

So perhaps at that point her death had not even been established/ happened yet, and Mrs. Hudson crying about looking after Rosie was due to Mary running away, not due to her death.

sherlocked · January 5, 2017 10:13 am

TheOtherOne, very good points! Mary might indeed have recorded and sent this before she ran away - and this scene might show Sherlock and Mrs. Hudson watching it before Mary died! It might also explain why Sherlock is relatively calm and decides just to go on with his cases. The time line of this episode is devillish
But in this case Sherlock's activities before Mary died might've all been related to the case of saving John Watson.

sherlocked · January 5, 2017 10:19 am

Since Mary says, she will probably be dead when the dvd is watched, we can safely conclude that she did NOT leave instructions that the dvd should be sent after her death. In that case she would've said: " When you watch this I WILL be dead". Therefore she probably recorded and sent the dvd before she went on the run.

Last edited by sherlocked (January 5, 2017 10:19 am)

Liberty · January 5, 2017 10:28 am

That makes sense ... although I wonder why she doesn't mention it to Sherlock after she's back. She would have expected that he had watched it, wouldn't she? She couldn't have known that Mrs Hudson had misplaced it. But she doesn't mention it, doesn't intercept it ... interesting.

sherlocked · January 5, 2017 10:42 am

Liberty, Sherlock might indeed have watched the dvd while Mary was still on the run. That might be the reason why Mary - as far as we know - never tries to intercept or talk about it. When she got caught up with Sherlock might've simply told her: " Got your dvd btw - although a bit delayed because it was sitting in Mrs. Hudson's stack".

Mothonthemantel · January 5, 2017 10:49 am

I assumed the disc Sherlock watched was sent when Mary went on her tour. The part with the go-to-hell Sherlock might be on a disc that was to be sent after her death? BBC did say here's a taster of next week just before we got it.

I wonder if John got a message too, maybe he did and that's part of the reason he doesn't want to see Sherlock. If John did not get a message ( just the overly sentimental letter I think Sherlock wrote in his head) one wonders why.

Very old fashioned using a CD too! What no memory stick

Liberty · January 5, 2017 10:49 am

Sherlocked, we see him watching it after Mary's death - it's part of the scene where Mrs Hudson and he are grieving and he tells her to say "Norbury" if he gets too cocky. Unless he's putting on an act for Mrs Hudson (pretending he hasn't seen it before), but I don't see why.

Last edited by Liberty (January 5, 2017 11:00 am)

sherlocked · January 5, 2017 10:52 am

Ok, yes, you are right. They are not just grieving over Mary running away. Norbury dates it securely.
In this case it's indeed puzzling that Mary doesn't try to retrieve or at least locate or speak about it. Sherlock clearly doesn't know about it since he thinks it's from Moriarty.

Last edited by sherlocked (January 5, 2017 10:54 am)

Mothonthemantel · January 5, 2017 11:00 am

Norbury is a reference to yellow face ? Is that the one where the husband thinks the wife is being blackmailed by her ex husband. Sort of comparable with - Marys ex family turning up to kill her.

sherlocked · January 5, 2017 11:01 am

Yes, mothonthemantel, that's the reverence to canon.

Mothonthemantel · January 5, 2017 11:03 am

I think there a delay in Sherlock getting the disc though - Mrs Hudson had it?

sherlocked · January 5, 2017 11:06 am

Yes, mothonthemantel, that was my point. Mrs. Hudson had it for a while. We don't know when the dvd arrived and how long it was with Mrs. Hudson. That's why we think that Mary could well have sent it before she went on the run or while she was on the run. She apparently didn't leave instructions that the dvd should only be sent after her death, because in this case she would've said on the recording: " When you hear this I WILL be dead".

Last edited by sherlocked (January 5, 2017 11:09 am)

Mothonthemantel · January 5, 2017 11:08 am

yes.

besleybean · January 5, 2017 5:05 pm

But she did say that!

Liberty · January 5, 2017 5:15 pm

I think she said "probably dead". Although it could mean that she had some other condition in which the DVD would be sent.

Preceja · January 5, 2017 9:43 pm

What if the conditions were "If I am dead or do not let you no more then half a year? " or something like that.
She should be able to estimate how long it would take she either solve the situation or be killed.