BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » First impressons and discussions

Mothonthemantel · January 2, 2017 12:07 am

Also . Love.
Amo amā́bam amā́bō amā́vī ?
Present imperfect future perfect ?

Did I hear right.

Ichneumon · January 2, 2017 12:08 am

ewige wrote:
Hi and welcome!

Yeah, that fridge bit was very confusing! Is it his fridge at teh office? I don't know, it's sort of stand-alone and the walls around it look to shabby for it being Mike's place.

Liberty wrote:
Welcome to the forums! Yes, I felt I didn't really get that bit. Another part I need to watch again. Maybe the significance will be revealed later. And Sherrinford was the word for the third episode ... but could also maybe be the overarching theme.

Thanks!

And who connects him to Sherrinford? There seem to be quite a lot of people knowing about the hypothetical "secret third brother"/"other one" for him to be really secret.

ewige · January 2, 2017 12:08 am

Mothonthemantel wrote:
Also . Love.
Amo amā́bam amā́bō amā́vī ?
Present imperfect future perfect ?

Did I hear right.

Even grammar ships Johnlock.

Punch me in the face · January 2, 2017 12:08 am

Btw, what do you think will happen to Rosie?

Maybe it is stated in the episode, if so, i missed it.

I mean, we see Molly looking after her, but it surely can't always be that way.

And if John is gonna be back at 221B, I don't know, don't want to sound harsh, but I don't really want a baby standing in the way. I'm not a huge fan of the "Sherlock and John parenthood" thing, plus I can't see how they can decently take care of a baby when they live such an adventurous and risky life...

tonnaree · January 2, 2017 12:09 am

Bits and pieces:

Ok people. Didn't we establish from setlock that the Lady In Red in TLD was being played by the actress Sian Brooke who was in Hamlet with Ben? Well, I thought that was her too as the Bus Stop Woman. So for the hell of it I looked at IMDB again and Sian is listed as being in TST!!! No character name listed. I am convinced this was not random flirting!

Everyone being upset that John is OOC in blaming Sherlock for Mary's death. My opinion is that there is no such thing as In Character when it comes to grief. Everyone is OOC when gripped by that kind of pain. I know from experience that you will say and do things that you would never have imagined of yourself. To the point where loved ones may even comment that you are not yourself. I think John's immediate reaction is totally understandable.

I am so glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the skull painting glowing!!! For a minute I thought I might be seeing things!

more to come.........................................................

Whisky · January 2, 2017 12:10 am

Mothonthemantel wrote:
I didn't want Mary to be redeemed but think she sort of was.
When she said Go to hell. . maybe she meant caring and loving John when he is whatever he is - is hell.

I like that thought.
But - is there a side of John Mary knows better than Sherlock? (apart from the obvious...)
John has been so angry at Sherlock already, and has been heartbroken about Sherlock, in front of Sherlock... is there anything Sherlock doesn't know yet?

I find it hard to believe Mary knows John's moods better than Sherlock. I think Sherlocks akward way of just loving John, in his own way, is not a bad strategy, bcause it is honest, and what John dislikes is lying. I think Sherlockknows very well what hell feels like, after TRF, where he is so close to losing John.

I think Sherlock has proven he will like John, whatever happens.
I thought it was established the other way round, too. That's where my confusion comes from.

What is Sherlock trying to do with the therapist?

Vhanja · January 2, 2017 12:12 am

tonnaree wrote:
Everyone being upset that John is OOC in blaming Sherlock for Mary's death. My opinion is that there is no such thing as In Character when it comes to grief. Everyone is OOC when gripped by that kind of pain. I know from experience that you will say and do things that you would never have imagined of yourself. To the point where loved ones may even comment that you are not yourself. I think John's immediate reaction is totally understandable.

I absolutely agree with this. Just about anything can be excused as an immediate reaction when it comes to grief. So whatever he said when hugging Mary's corpse can be understandable and forgivable.

However, it's not that immediate when Sherlock was outside the door and Molly was helping out with the baby. It would have given John some time to calm down and think - or so I would've thought.

I do still think there is some projection going on, though. I don't think John can even face the guilt over flirting with someone else, and so he blames it all on Sherlock. In a way understandable, but very, very wrong. Lestrade was there, I hope he gives John a visit and tells him a thing or two.

ewige · January 2, 2017 12:13 am

tonnaree wrote:
So for the hell of it I looked at IMDB again and Sian is listed as being in TST!!! No character name listed. I am convinced this was not random flirting!

What a great and terrifying find, tonnaree!

Vhanja · January 2, 2017 12:14 am

And, omg, you guys - little pirate Sherlock with Redbeard!

Mothonthemantel · January 2, 2017 12:14 am

Whisky wrote:
Mothonthemantel wrote:
I didn't want Mary to be redeemed but think she sort of was.
When she said Go to hell. . maybe she meant caring and loving John when he is whatever he is - is hell.

I like that thought.
But - is there a side of John Mary knows better than Sherlock? (apart from the obvious...)
John has been so angry at Sherlock already, and has been heartbroken about Sherlock, in front of Sherlock... is there anything Sherlock doesn't know yet?

I find it hard to believe Mary knows John's moods better than Sherlock. I think Sherlocks akward way of just loving John, in his own way, is not a bad strategy, bcause it is honest, and what John dislikes is lying. I think Sherlockknows very well what hell feels like, after TRF, where he is so close to losing John.

I think Sherlock has proven he will like John, whatever happens.
I thought it was established the other way round, too. That's where my confusion comes from.

What is Sherlock trying to do with the therapist?

Yes I agree . SH went to death to save the marriage and John's like...eh smiley lady over there.
Marriage was doomed anyway.
Guess we need to discover Who is John Watson.

Edits: sorry omg New pc automatically correcting. Kneed ! FPS!

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (January 2, 2017 12:17 am)

ewige · January 2, 2017 12:15 am

Big Sherlock calling Rosie "Watson"!
She exists as John's subunit in his mind.

Last edited by ewige (January 2, 2017 12:15 am)

Liberty · January 2, 2017 12:15 am

tonnaree wrote:
Bits and pieces:

Ok people. Didn't we establish from setlock that the Lady In Red in TLD was being played by the actress Sian Brooke who was in Hamlet with Ben? Well, I thought that was her too as the Bus Stop Woman. So for the hell of it I looked at IMDB again and Sian is listed as being in TST!!! No character name listed. I am convinced this was not random flirting!

Yes, I thought that too. Her name came up in the credits at the end, playing "Elizabeth". Not really a spoiler but

one of the interviews said that Culverton's daughter approaches Sherlock. I thought that was the Lady in Red. If so, "Elizabeth" is Culverton's daughter.

.

I honestly think we don't really know what we've seen until we've seen the whole series.

Vhanja · January 2, 2017 12:16 am

Wasn't there a scene now with the Bus Lady sitting with a Culverton commercial next to her?

Liberty · January 2, 2017 12:16 am

Vhanja wrote:
I think they were both assholes as a partner, to be honest. Mary for running away instead of including John. John for having his (almost) affair. They weren't really being a loving unity, either of them.

To be fair to Mary, the reason for "running away" was to protect John and Rosie. If we believe her.

Whisky · January 2, 2017 12:16 am

tonnaree wrote:
Everyone being upset that John is OOC in blaming Sherlock for Mary's death. My opinion is that there is no such thing as In Character when it comes to grief. Everyone is OOC when gripped by that kind of pain. I know from experience that you will say and do things that you would never have imagined of yourself. To the point where loved ones may even comment that you are not yourself. I think John's immediate reaction is totally understandable.

You are absolutely right. But to me, it didn't feel immediate. It felt like a set-up for another relationship-resolving arc. I don't mean John's grief as such feels wrong. But the way it is shown, or rather, used... I am not sure it is possible to seperate that, but I agree with you. It just felt more than just showing someone grieving, and doing irrational things in grief.

Vhanja · January 2, 2017 12:18 am

Liberty wrote:
To be fair to Mary, the reason for "running away" was to protect John and Rosie. If we believe her.

I don't like that. Sherlock and Mary meeting "to protect John". Mary running off on her own "to protect John and Rosy".

What about talking to each other? They are husband and wife.

Sherlock Holmes · January 2, 2017 12:18 am

Vhanja wrote:
Oh, and "love" was established as a code word, did you guys notice that?

Yeah, which sets it up nicely for the "I love you" which is gonna appear at some point in the next two eps.

Lis · January 2, 2017 12:19 am

tonnaree wrote:
Bits and pieces:

Ok people. Didn't we establish from setlock that the Lady In Red in TLD was being played by the actress Sian Brooke who was in Hamlet with Ben? Well, I thought that was her too as the Bus Stop Woman. So for the hell of it I looked at IMDB again and Sian is listed as being in TST!!! No character name listed. I am convinced this was not random flirting!

Everyone being upset that John is OOC in blaming Sherlock for Mary's death. My opinion is that there is no such thing as In Character when it comes to grief. Everyone is OOC when gripped by that kind of pain. I know from experience that you will say and do things that you would never have imagined of yourself. To the point where loved ones may even comment that you are not yourself. I think John's immediate reaction is totally understandable.

I am so glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the skull painting glowing!!! For a minute I thought I might be seeing things!

more to come.........................................................

The skull is very weird. Arwel Jones tweeted a picture of it, it has a gold tooth....like a pirate!

https://twitter.com/arwelwjones/status/815679996547203072

Last edited by Lis (January 2, 2017 12:22 am)

Liberty · January 2, 2017 12:23 am

Vhanja wrote:
Liberty wrote:
To be fair to Mary, the reason for "running away" was to protect John and Rosie. If we believe her.

I don't like that. Sherlock and Mary meeting "to protect John". Mary running off on her own "to protect John and Rosy".

What about talking to each other? They are husband and wife.

Just mentioning it because I know it was often commented that she was selfishly putting John and the baby at risk by staying with them, and if she'd really cared, she'd have disappeared. But then, when she does find she's being targeted, and does disappear to keep them safe, she's criticised for doing that too. By different people, of course! I suppose she couldn't get it right either way. I imagine the reason for not talking was that she thought John would try to stop her, and because she was trying to disappear quickly, without a trace.

Sherlock Holmes · January 2, 2017 12:27 am

laipoldluk wrote:
I still cant get over the fact that mary sacrificed herself. Didnt she care about john and the baby? This just doesnt make sense to me...

Because she genuinely cared about Sherlock. They were friends. And she owed him.