BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » First impressons and discussions

besleybean · January 2, 2017 5:07 pm

Snap!

Whisky · January 2, 2017 5:26 pm

Just realised, what is going on when Sherlock dismisses John and takes Mary's help instead.... it felt like a joke first, but then... I would be very pissed off in John's place! Sherlock doesn't seem to joke. Or is he?

Rewatching, I love Mycroft and Sherlock even more together. Their interaction is great!

Also, the scenes with Lestrade, Sherlock and John... I really enjoy them. Like a little save haven in the big troubled Mary ocean Not meant negative, but it's nice to have this quiet detective work before things get dark.

ewige · January 2, 2017 5:30 pm

Swanpride wrote:
Call back to Sherlock wanting the child to be named after him. He was talking to Sherlock, not Mary.

Yes, of course, but both John and Mary tell Sherlock now that "it's not a girl's name" while in HLV it was a part of Sherlock and John's private moment. Good catch, Whisky. I don't like Mary and John making fun of Sherlock's sentiment.

Whisky · January 2, 2017 5:31 pm

besleybean wrote:
Refers to HLV: when Sherlock wanted the baby named after him.

Yes, but the "Sherlock is actually a girl's name", that was between John and Sherlock. Isn't iit a reference to that line? I don't remember exactly, just thought John must have told Mary that line, because she wasn't there to hear it. It sounded like a joke about exactly that line.
Anyway, doesn't matter that much.

edit: thank you, ewige, exactly that! You put it better than me!
Exactly that feeling of making fun of Sherlock's sentiment was what bothered me!
So John obviously didn't see it as a very private moment then, the exchange on the tarmac? We speculated so much about it and it's meaning (or hidden meaning, or what could have been said instead) so it sprang into my face somehow.

Last edited by Whisky (January 2, 2017 5:35 pm)

nakahara · January 2, 2017 5:47 pm

What happened in an episode:

nakahara · January 2, 2017 5:49 pm

Sherlock at the end of an episode:

Ichneumon · January 2, 2017 5:58 pm

Whisky wrote:
I think we still tend to defend Mycroft, but I find it harder to do so now. What about him and Mary?
What responsibility does Mycroft have here? Or had?

Sherlock and Mycroft should do some talking. And Sherlock and John. It would simplify things. They all tangle each other up in big stuff and get strangled. Why not play with open cards? Would love to see more of that. Maybe that's what is coming next episode.

I hope they do not make Mycroft a villian... the one thing we know for sure about him is that he loves Sherlock. For now I see no reason to doubt that.

But if he knew about AGRA he must have known about Mary's past from the beginning, doesn't he? And he didn't care to mention to Sherlock or John that John was marrying a potentially dangerous former assasin or intervene in any way? Not even after she shot Sherlock?

Meggie K · January 2, 2017 6:00 pm

I agree with those who are saying that the opening scene was weird, fluffy, jarring, etc. But, he engaged Mrs. Norbery [sp?] in conversation, bringing our attention to her,thus ensuring that we would remember her at the end.

Mothonthemantel · January 2, 2017 6:00 pm

I might be mistaken but it was not Mycroft that hired AGRA it was Lady Smallwood and it was Smallwoods secretary that changed the orders setting the ambassador and AGRA up to die .
When Mycroft discovered the AGRA mess - he put a stop to it .

Ichneumon · January 2, 2017 6:11 pm

Mothonthemantel wrote:
I might be mistaken but it was not Mycroft that hired AGRA it was Lady Smallwood and it was Smallwoods secretary that changed the orders setting the ambassador and AGRA up to die .
When Mycroft discovered the AGRA mess - he put a stop to it .

I understood it that way too. But he still knew about them and their identities and never mentioned it until Sherlock asked him directly about them in this episode. Seems strange to me.

I also didn't like how Sherlock killing Magnussen was brushed off. I mean... he did kill an unarmed man in cold blood in front of witnesses. Even if there is no investigation I would have expected someone reacting to it. At least John or Mycroft given how emotional the scene in HLV was. Or Sherlock trying to cope with murdering someone...

besleybean · January 2, 2017 6:15 pm

Sadly, I don't think Sherlock is that averse to murder...

Liberty · January 2, 2017 6:19 pm

I have a feeling Mycroft knew about Mary all along, but thought she was protective. As she proves to be in the end.

Mothonthemantel · January 2, 2017 6:20 pm

I think they accepted Mycrofts Sometimes England needs a blunt instrument argument and instead of punishing Sherlock with a suicide mission - they now use him as bait for Moriarty.

besleybean · January 2, 2017 6:20 pm

God I hope not.

SolarSystem · January 2, 2017 6:23 pm

Swanpride wrote:
1. It didn't actually continue the story which was set up and for which we waited for three years. It just throw in distractions. I mean, that is the big revelation, that Moriarty set up something in case he died, and now Sherlock has to wait? Really?
2. It set up a new story on top of the one which is already dangling in the air, and honestly, I have a hard time to get invested in this because at this point it feels more like the writers are stringing the audience around than an actual mystery for us to solve.

I agree and this is beginning to remind me of tv shows which had a great start and then lost themselves within their own cleverness and eventually had a disastrous last season. Like "Lost". For four seasons the authors raised questions and built mystery upon mystery and it was really thrilling. They occasionally answered some of the questions, left other questions open or answered them partially and also raised new questions. And then in the final season - nothing. Absolutely nothing. They resolved the whole show with one big answer to all the various questions and it was totally ridiculous. So many things became meaningless.
Some things in "Sherlock" already have lost their meaning for me, for example almost the whole of TRF. I'd like to believe that they'll bring that meaning back by eventually presenting satisfying answers and explanations - but I have my doubts.

Mothonthemantel · January 2, 2017 6:24 pm

I think Mycroft expected Sherlock to have deduced Mary and not been so slow.

I like to think Mycroft is omnipotent and always right.
Probably my Mycroft obsession though.

Ichneumon · January 2, 2017 6:27 pm

besleybean wrote:
Sadly, I don't think Sherlock is that averse to murder...

I wonder if it was the first time he killed someone. Mycroft and his "Oh Sherlock, what have you done?" sounded disappointed rather than truly shocked or surprised and if anyone can rationalize killing someone it would be Mycroft. They even seem closer than ever before. No scenes where Sherlock is deliberatley cruel to Mycroft, no diet jokes...

But John? Sherlock kills for him and Mary and there is no reaction? I can believe in John cheating on Mary ... but John and Sherlock drifting further apart after Sherlock risked so much for them? And they don't even fight because of it or anything. Just complete indifference on John's side.

Lis · January 2, 2017 6:39 pm

Ok just to be completely and utterly shallow for a second, I wasn't keen on Sherlock's hair in some scenes, especially at the beginning when he was going through the cases and talking to DI Dimmock, it looked a little flat and Ben's makeup sometimes looked a little off too, a bit too orange?

Everyone looked a little bit older (which is completely understandable as it has been a few years, and also not a bad thing) except Lestrade, the man does not age! I think he's the vampire John was texting

Ok back to less shallow thoughts now

ewige · January 2, 2017 6:46 pm

Lis wrote:
Everyone looked a little bit older (which is completely understandable as it has been a few years, and also not a bad thing) except Lestrade, the man does not age! I think he's the vampire John was texting

Hahaha! Good one!

I think all of them looked a bit orange. Even Smith looks orange in the trailer.

Lis · January 2, 2017 6:49 pm

Yeah that's true, maybe the tone they've gone for in post for some reason.