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December 16, 2016 7:40 am  #41


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

It's difficult, because we didn't get to hear that interview, but it wasn't really reported like that.   They seemed to talk about it one part of the interview, and then talk about lying in another part, while making it clear they weren't lying about JL.  It's worth a read.

http://www.withanaccent.com/2016/07/27/sherlock-a-case-of-sexual-identity/

" But we’ve explicitly said this is not going to happen – there is no game plan – no matter how much we lie about other things, that this show is going to culminate in Martin and Benedict going off into the sunset together. They are not going to do it.”

And this interview was confirmed as legit by Mark, and I think by Sue too?  So we can't just assume it's bad reporting. 

The pbs tumblr comment is different, because they are very jokey with their comments there, and we don't have context.  But, it does fit with what's above and what's in the rest of that interview.  It also fits with what Mark said at Mumbai. 

 

 

December 16, 2016 7:47 am  #42


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

I have to get somerhing off my chest:
- I process the repeated denial of the possibility that johnlock will ever become canon. I truly am. I can live with that as long as I don't get this happywarstanandjohnlockary-narrative shoved down my throat.
But one request I would have for the Mofftiss:
Stop teasing alltogether, pretty please! You know exactly what you are unlashing if you include Sherlock saying "I love you" in a teaser! And when John asks "Is it too early for a divorce?"
Thank you.

Last edited by mrshouse (December 16, 2016 7:48 am)


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

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December 16, 2016 8:00 am  #43


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

They may well not be teasing about John and Mary separating in some way (death, divorce or whatever!).  The "I love you" is definitely a tease of some sort, but I wonder ... we were talking earlier about how the general public don't really see Johnlock, so it certainly wouldn't be a Johnlock tease for them.  And as Mark said, it really doesn't look as if he's talking to John in that clip.  In fact you could see that John and Mycroft are the two who are ruled out.  It would have been more of a tease if we'd just heard his voice, saying it! 

 

December 16, 2016 8:43 am  #44


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

As I have said earlier in my "crack" theory, I have a feeling that "I love you" is a code-word of some sort, not a real declaration of love. Sherlock looks to me like he is trying to get himself, John and Mycroft out of that small room in that scene.

But of course, regardless of what it is in reality, it is also meant as a lowbrow bait for fans and that´s fairly disgusting, IMHO.


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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December 16, 2016 8:52 am  #45


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

Exactly what I've been thinking, nakahara


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"
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December 16, 2016 9:13 am  #46


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

Liberty wrote:

It's difficult, because we didn't get to hear that interview, but it wasn't really reported like that.   They seemed to talk about it one part of the interview, and then talk about lying in another part, while making it clear they weren't lying about JL.  It's worth a read.

http://www.withanaccent.com/2016/07/27/sherlock-a-case-of-sexual-identity/

" But we’ve explicitly said this is not going to happen – there is no game plan – no matter how much we lie about other things, that this show is going to culminate in Martin and Benedict going off into the sunset together. They are not going to do it.”

And this interview was confirmed as legit by Mark, and I think by Sue too?  So we can't just assume it's bad reporting. 

The pbs tumblr comment is different, because they are very jokey with their comments there, and we don't have context.  But, it does fit with what's above and what's in the rest of that interview.  It also fits with what Mark said at Mumbai. 

 

 
Maybe it's just a question of careful wording? Martin and Benedict aren't very likely to go off into the sunset together.


-----
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December 16, 2016 9:54 am  #47


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

I don't think everything they write are aimed at Johnlockers. I don't think they write "I love you" or the divorce comment to tease Johnlockers, I doubt they think much about that part of the fandom while writing. They write the story they want to write, as they've stated. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
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Team Hudders!
 
 

December 16, 2016 10:02 am  #48


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

What I meant to say is not about their writing process. It's about what they tease us with. They will have a say in what is shown there. And I repeat: they should know what they are doing by this. They should just stop this alltogether IMHO.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

http://picload.org/image/lcowadi/osajrand2.jpg
 

December 16, 2016 10:04 am  #49


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

I hope they won't. It would lessen the show if they did, in my opinion. I love the ambiguity.

Also, Sherlock's "I love you" is a big deal also in a non-Johnlock context. If it's real statement (and not, say, a password), it shows huge development of his character.

Last edited by Vhanja (December 16, 2016 10:05 am)


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

December 16, 2016 3:24 pm  #50


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

This response from SM kind of sums it up for me:
Don’t take anyone to be what they say they are, or you’ll never be a good detective. -SM

And I too love the ambiguity and the "tease" in the show.  I don't want it to stop. I love all the speculations and clever people finding "hidden" things (rainbow lighting, elephants, etc.) that could indicate Johnlock.. I get that some people see this as baiting but I unapologetically say I love this aspect of the show. *sorry* 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

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December 16, 2016 3:35 pm  #51


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

KeepersPrice wrote:

This response from SM kind of sums it up for me:
Don’t take anyone to be what they say they are, or you’ll never be a good detective. -SM

And I too love the ambiguity and the "tease" in the show. I don't want it to stop. I love all the speculations and clever people finding "hidden" things (rainbow lighting, elephants, etc.) that could indicate Johnlock.. I get that some people see this as baiting but I unapologetically say I love this aspect of the show. *sorry*

I'm with you on this KP.  Personally I loved the Q&A yesterday.  Such epic trolling!  The way I see it if you're going to ask them a direct question about plot development, you shouldn't be surprised or insulted when they feck with you.  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German   http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.gif
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
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December 16, 2016 6:29 pm  #52


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

nakahara wrote:

As I have said earlier in my "crack" theory, I have a feeling that "I love you" is a code-word of some sort, not a real declaration of love. Sherlock looks to me like he is trying to get himself, John and Mycroft out of that small room in that scene.

But of course, regardless of what it is in reality, it is also meant as a lowbrow bait for fans and that´s fairly disgusting, IMHO.

This was very much my first impression.  It looks as if he is speaking into an intercom or camera, and that "I love you" is some sort of code (it reminds me of IOU too).   However, I do think actual love will be involved too.   We'll see.

I think it's fine to put it in the trailer.  It's dramatic and unexpected, but doesn't really give anything away.   I suppose you could call it baiting, but in a good way - of course we're going to want to watch to see what it's all about! 

 

December 16, 2016 6:35 pm  #53


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

ewige wrote:

Liberty wrote:

It's difficult, because we didn't get to hear that interview, but it wasn't really reported like that.   They seemed to talk about it one part of the interview, and then talk about lying in another part, while making it clear they weren't lying about JL.  It's worth a read.

http://www.withanaccent.com/2016/07/27/sherlock-a-case-of-sexual-identity/

" But we’ve explicitly said this is not going to happen – there is no game plan – no matter how much we lie about other things, that this show is going to culminate in Martin and Benedict going off into the sunset together. They are not going to do it.”

And this interview was confirmed as legit by Mark, and I think by Sue too?  So we can't just assume it's bad reporting. 

The pbs tumblr comment is different, because they are very jokey with their comments there, and we don't have context.  But, it does fit with what's above and what's in the rest of that interview.  It also fits with what Mark said at Mumbai. 

 

 
Maybe it's just a question of careful wording? Martin and Benedict aren't very likely to go off into the sunset together.

But reading the whole thing, and the talk about representation, and perhaps looking at what they said about representation in the previous interview that they're talking about, do you think it's likely that they're hiding Johnlock by talking about Martin and Benedict?  Those are the actors playing the parts, they are the ones who would act out the relationship, so I can see what they mean.  It's a bit like Benedict sometimes referring to Sherlock as "me".  He's clearly not talking about himself as a person, but about his performance.   

There is some technical ambiguity in the language, in the same way that there is in what Mark said at Mumbai (he said that they wouldn't be in an openly gay relationship, which technically means that he hasn't denied they would be in a closeted gay relationship.  Or maybe a bisexual relationship, etc.), but I think if you look at the whole picture it's a lot clearer what message they are trying to get across.

 

December 17, 2016 3:29 pm  #54


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

Can we stop for a minute to appreciate Benedict's description of the show from the Guardian Guide article?
“We are slasher fiction and an updated version of a Victorian classic, so that in itself plays into the world of fan obsession,” he ponders.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/dec/17/benedict-cumberbatch-sherlock-series-four
Are they allowed to name things with their true names now? ggg


-----
"The posh boy loves the dominatrix." http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.gif Context matters.
 

December 17, 2016 4:12 pm  #55


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

ewige wrote:

Can we stop for a minute to appreciate Benedict's description of the show from the Guardian Guide article?
“We are slasher fiction and an updated version of a Victorian classic, so that in itself plays into the world of fan obsession,” he ponders.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/dec/17/benedict-cumberbatch-sherlock-series-four
Are they allowed to name things with their true names now? ggg

Apparently. :-)))


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still believe that love conquers all!

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"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

December 17, 2016 4:34 pm  #56


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

I doubt he knows what that word means... but aw! 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"
https://secure.static.tumblr.com/366e007c7d5d80b608050b4c5e841fb6/clrlpmh/wV7o0y8be/tumblr_static_tumblr_static__640.gif
"Oh Watson. Nothing made me... I made me"
"Luuuuurve Ginger Nuts"

Tumblr I AO3
#IbelieveInSeries5
 

December 17, 2016 6:01 pm  #57


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:

I doubt he knows what that word means... but aw! 

Oh, at this point in the game I think he knows very well what slash means.  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German   http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.gif
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
http://media-cache-ec3.pinimg.com/736x/aa/2b/35/aa2b352725f4c944599a3ea17cbfe44e.jpg    https://31.media.tumblr.com/bb0f8896a79d19602eeaea0254ff5ccd/tumblr_n5ztxjGDB61stgn3no1_500.jpg
 
 

December 17, 2016 6:03 pm  #58


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

http://images.radiotimes.com/namedimage/What_time_is_the_next_episode_of_Sherlock_on_TV_.jpg?quality=85&mode=crop&width=620&height=374&404=tv&url=/uploads/images/original/124878.jpg


We are the Holmes brothers and we are here to feck stuff up.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German   http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.gif
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
http://media-cache-ec3.pinimg.com/736x/aa/2b/35/aa2b352725f4c944599a3ea17cbfe44e.jpg    https://31.media.tumblr.com/bb0f8896a79d19602eeaea0254ff5ccd/tumblr_n5ztxjGDB61stgn3no1_500.jpg
 
 

December 17, 2016 6:08 pm  #59


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

Actually "slasher" means a particular kind of horror - the gory kind where people get slashed.  It's not the same as "slash", which kind of means pairing two characters together.  

I think you're right, Phantom, that he doesn't know what it means, because I remember him saying exactly that phrase in another interview, ages ago, when he clearly meant "fan fiction".   It's not slasher fiction, and if it really was slash fiction and he was hiding a plot point, he wouldn't call it that!   So my guess it that he meant the same as he did last time.   Maybe somebody should tell him!

 

December 17, 2016 6:18 pm  #60


Re: The Series 4 Johnlock speculation thread (contains spoilers)

I think he knows exactly what he is talking about, he just uses the wrong term because he is not an expert on the subject of fan fiction.
It does not make no sense to call Sherlock "slasher fiction". Compared to other shows there is hardly any gory stuff. In Canon we have cut-off ears sent by mail - so far we did get nothing like that in Sherlock. Which makes me believe that both times he was talking about same-sex love between men and not about gutted corpses. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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