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August 26, 2016 5:28 pm  #81


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Yes, I agree. I prefer this to the version where EMP starts after the paramedics have arrived. 

In TAB we have seen that Sherlock uses his MP to play through scenarios. IMO EMP could be Sherlock trying to find a way to cope with the Mary problem. How to tell John, how to keep John safe, how to deal with Magnussen. And what we see is one version (many people do not find satisfying nor convincing). And it would make the whole surgery business more understandable. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

August 26, 2016 5:30 pm  #82


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

SusiGo wrote:

Yes, I agree. I prefer this to the version where EMP starts after the paramedics have arrived. 

In TAB we have seen that Sherlock uses his MP to play through scenarios. IMO EMP could be Sherlock trying to find a way to cope with the Mary problem. How to tell John, how to keep John safe, how to deal with Magnussen. And what we see is one version (many people do not find satisfying nor convincing). And it would make the whole surgery business more understandable. 

I like that-- and it makes the whole of s3 and TAB much more palatable and understandable! 

 

August 26, 2016 5:31 pm  #83


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

I think it starting with Sherlock being shot makes some sort of sense, purely because he's unconscious then, so could be imagining/dreaming.   I can't decide whether the fact that we've had a mind palace segment already (just after he got shot) which is clearly mind palace makes this more or less likely.

I'm still bothering about Magnussen's matching mind palace and wondering if The Whole Thing is in Sherlock's head.   We first see him in a drugged state, which is how he induced the mind palace in TAB. 

 

 

August 26, 2016 5:34 pm  #84


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

@Liberty Do you mean the whole of HLV?


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August 26, 2016 5:40 pm  #85


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Yes.  Only really in the wild speculation sense and not saying I believe it, but it would explain that particular thing (when we first see Magnussen's mind palace, it's Sherlock, not Magnussen, imagining it), and would have a parallel with TAB (drug-induced mind palace).   He's been in the drug den the whole time. 

 

August 26, 2016 5:41 pm  #86


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Now that's an interesting thought!

That would also explain why he stresses the drugs topic so extensively in TAB.

Last edited by Schmiezi (August 26, 2016 5:42 pm)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

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August 26, 2016 5:42 pm  #87


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

I like the idea. Although, if I am not mistaken, the first time we see CAM's MP is at the end of TEH, right? Him watching the bonfire video. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 26, 2016 5:42 pm  #88


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

That really does make them go big on the drugs thing.


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August 26, 2016 5:45 pm  #89


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Which they have already done. I remember discussions in here after S2 when people denied he had been an addict at all. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 26, 2016 5:48 pm  #90


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

I certainly thought he'd had drug issues from the outset, I suspected that's how he first got involved with the police!


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August 26, 2016 5:59 pm  #91


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Liberty wrote:

Yes.  Only really in the wild speculation sense and not saying I believe it, but it would explain that particular thing (when we first see Magnussen's mind palace, it's Sherlock, not Magnussen, imagining it), and would have a parallel with TAB (drug-induced mind palace).   He's been in the drug den the whole time. 

Hmm.. that could make sense-- but I'm not sure that's a theory for me for the following reasons: I'm not sure about the idea that reduces Sherlock to ...well.. nothing more than a drug-addled junkie; it lets Mary off the hook waaaaaay too easily (it was all in Sherlock's imagination!), I'm now having trouble trying to figure out what the point of the whole exercise is, other than to invert Sherlock's character, since we don't find out that Sherlock's trying to solve the problem of Moriarty until the end of TAB. Rather Alice in Wonderland/ Wizard of Oz-ish. 

 

August 26, 2016 6:13 pm  #92


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Oh, I agree.  But Mary wouldn't have any hook to get off at that point!

Good point about CAM in TEH, but that could possibly be Sherlock's imagining. 

Now, the drugs ... Sherlock didn't really have major drug issues in S1 and S2.  He was a user, but it all seemed under control.  Well, apart from the nicotine occasionally.  To be honest, I think they clearly showed that wasn't a big issue for him.  Even when Mycroft worries about it, it seems there's no need to.  And then in S3, he bounces back after using the drugs for a case, especially with the replacement drug of being on an adventure with John.   So I wonder if they've changed their minds about this as time went on. 

However, TAB seems to give the drug den more significance.

 

August 26, 2016 6:16 pm  #93


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

See I would have said it was just because of the more acceptable nature of the Victorian Sherlock...but then TAB is SO much about modern Sherlock, too.


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August 27, 2016 4:07 am  #94


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Liberty wrote:

Oh, I agree.  But Mary wouldn't have any hook to get off at that point!

Good point about CAM in TEH, but that could possibly be Sherlock's imagining. 

Now, the drugs ... Sherlock didn't really have major drug issues in S1 and S2.  He was a user, but it all seemed under control.  Well, apart from the nicotine occasionally.  To be honest, I think they clearly showed that wasn't a big issue for him.  Even when Mycroft worries about it, it seems there's no need to.  And then in S3, he bounces back after using the drugs for a case, especially with the replacement drug of being on an adventure with John.   So I wonder if they've changed their minds about this as time went on. 

However, TAB seems to give the drug den more significance.

I think they're definitely inconsistent-- they make him out to be a "junkie", but having him turning down his morphine-- in the hospital-- after being shot-- because it's "bad for brain work". 

 

August 27, 2016 5:34 am  #95


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

Liberty wrote:

Oh, I agree.  But Mary wouldn't have any hook to get off at that point!

Good point about CAM in TEH, but that could possibly be Sherlock's imagining. 

Now, the drugs ... Sherlock didn't really have major drug issues in S1 and S2.  He was a user, but it all seemed under control.  Well, apart from the nicotine occasionally.  To be honest, I think they clearly showed that wasn't a big issue for him.  Even when Mycroft worries about it, it seems there's no need to.  And then in S3, he bounces back after using the drugs for a case, especially with the replacement drug of being on an adventure with John.   So I wonder if they've changed their minds about this as time went on. 

However, TAB seems to give the drug den more significance.

I think they're definitely inconsistent-- they make him out to be a "junkie", but having him turning down his morphine-- in the hospital-- after being shot-- because it's "bad for brain work". 

I think for Sherlock, there is no inconsistency. It's all for the cases. He takes something at the drugs den to fool Magnussen. Then he turns down the morphine to think. Then he overdoses on the plane to solve the Moriarty riddle.

It does not work like that in real life of course. That could be artistic freedom of the writers or another hinter that we are inside Sherlock's mind.


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August 27, 2016 6:58 am  #96


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Yes, you could be right that they are not flagging up a drug "problem" in TAB.  After all, he bounces back in a ridiculous way (if it's not all MP!).  But the flashback and the list suggests a more problematic past. 

I think "junkie" is used a bit like "sociopath" in the show.  I don't think he's ever shown signs of being a junkie. 

 

August 27, 2016 1:32 pm  #97


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

You know, from a medical point of view there are certain criteria that has to be fulfilled to be diagnosed as an addict. I don't think Sherlock matches (enough) of them.

Now to the question when EMP might have started. I really can't say that. I can only say that there are two things I find very suspicous of something not being right.

The first one is this Sherlock and Magnussen scene in the Italian restaurant. I mean, wtf? This is odd in all ways. This is a scene where even the cinematography/lighting suggests that it isn't real.
The second one is kind of everything around the "Christmas" scenes: I started a thread some weeks ago that everything is green and the vegetation doesn't look like winter. There is this Billy Wiggins for a private family celebration. Mycroft and his laptop. the myterious book Mary is reading. AND one of the metas linked in the first post from SusiGo discovered that there are daisy flowers on the kitchen table! At Chirstmas! I never noticed and couldn't believe it when I read it, but it is true. Having daisies to Christmas/in winter is very unlikely. It is a spring/summer flower.

I had a kind of stupid theory that all scenes where Mary is wearing her piercing red coat could be MP. We are introduced to Mary as a person who is wearing subtle and discreet colours, natural and tone in tone. (Remember her standing at Sherlcks grave with John for example) Because I am a person who prefers natural coloured clothingit would be very off for me wearing such a blazing red coat. And at Christmas these strong red and green colours. But then I realized that Mary is wearing this red coat already in TEH (on the motorbike)... So screw it, there are some more scenes where my theory doesn't fit. Although I still wonder why her outfits are so inconsistent. Sometimes bright colours sometimes sublte...

But I have to say that in the end, I wouldn't be surprised at all when we learn in s4 that everything happened for real, even if the things mentioned above are so odd.

Last edited by Rache (August 27, 2016 1:35 pm)


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August 27, 2016 1:34 pm  #98


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

I like the idea of the use of clothes like that...but it could just be that Mary has different colours for different seasons...


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September 13, 2016 12:24 pm  #99


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

I think I might have found another hint that the first modern scene in TAB (first airplane scene) is still mindpalace. I find it odd that the pilot/Lady Carmichael is coming up to Sherlock and asking him if he had a pleasent flight. To this point from what we know, the plane was in the air for let's say no more than 10 minutes. They are not at the planned destination in Eastern Europe, but at the same spot where they started only minutes ago. In a situation like this, would a pilot really bother to talk to the passenger like that? There was no need to do her job in the end and yet she is allowing herself to be praised? It is like an engeged craftsman is noticing there is no need to repair something and still asking how pleased I am with his work. I think you know what I mean.^^

Whatever is behind that in the end, I think it supports the theories out there that we can't even trust (at least some of) the modern scenes in TAB.

Last edited by Rache (September 13, 2016 12:25 pm)


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Breathing is boring!

English isn't my first language, feel free to correct me via PM!
 

September 13, 2016 12:33 pm  #100


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Good point, Rache. I think they only included this moment to show how times have changed (woman can be pilots now) or how cleverly Sherlock weaves reality and mind palace into each other. He may have seen the pilot on entering the plane and integrated her into his MP. But it is quite improbable that she comes to look after him after flying for just 4 minutes, turning around, and landing the plane. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

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