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June 11, 2016 10:08 pm  #61


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

besleybean wrote:

Well I take your point.
But I consider Shakespeare to be the original that others have adapted.
ACD is the original, that the BBC adapt and it's their adaptation I love and want to continue watching.
But again you remind me of another interesting point: Mark and Steven both acknolwledge the Canon they work from is far from perfect and I feel that issue may at least mark the BBC series in some way.

Slightly off-topic but interesting:

Many of Shakespeare's plays are based on much older sources. I am not into it too deeply but I am sure many forum members are. So no, Shakespeare is not the original in many cases.

In fact, I remember my literature professor saying that there has been no completely original piece of writing for at least 2,000 years.  ;-)


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June 11, 2016 10:10 pm  #62


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

You're right of course...and even then it's debatable!

Last edited by besleybean (June 11, 2016 10:10 pm)


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June 11, 2016 10:38 pm  #63


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Liberty wrote:

It's possible Toby isn't the arch-villain of S4. I think it's OK to say this as there is "spoiler" in the thread title, but I got the impression that he is cast for Ep2 and we know who he's going to play.   The villain of Ep2 of S3 was a rather minor character.   I know Toby will be much a bigger character, but we don't know for certain if he's the archvillain for the final episode yet, do we?

Even though this might not really belong in this thread, let me just say that I would love it if they abandoned their usual pattern for their three episodes - I think it would be nice if they didn't concentrate on the third episode for the big showdown and then the cliffhanger. I mean, they could give us two showdowns and just spread them over two episodes or something like that. Let's face it, pretty much everyone expects the third episode to once again be the crucial episode of S4. And I know that something dramatic has to happen in that episode, but they have lots of possibilities... they could give us a climax that deals with Mary and a climax that deals with their villain (or their villain and Mary combined).
 

Last edited by SolarSystem (June 11, 2016 10:39 pm)


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

June 11, 2016 10:40 pm  #64


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

I agree. And the vibes I get from ep. 2 are quite spectacular. Therefore I think that this time ep. 2 might be really dramatic, having an interesting villain, Sherlock ill, and Mary as an underlying threat coming full circle in ep. 3. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

June 11, 2016 10:42 pm  #65


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Yes, my thoughts exactly.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

June 12, 2016 12:42 am  #66


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

It'll be interesting to see what Season 4 brings, won't it?  Then we'll find out how many of our surmises and speculations are true, and how many are off the mark. =)
 

 

June 12, 2016 6:34 am  #67


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Well, in some ways they might like to have a villain we already know.  They do seem to keep sticking with Moriarty, who has been the archvillain at the end of S1, S2 and TAB, so far.   If not him, it might be a good twist to make is somebody we know but haven't suspected as a villain.  And the longer Mary stays in the show, the more likely it is that she'll be one, I think (if we knew she was gone at the end of Ep1, I wouldn't expect her to be a villain - I feel that needs more build up.   The only thing is that Mary is the most obvious, maybe too obvious (she's already had that reveal in HLV).  Mycroft's probably the only other possible contender (although I've considered the others).   Villain or not, I strongly feel there has to be more to Mary's story.   

 

June 12, 2016 7:30 am  #68


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

I so want them to stick with Moriarty. But that isn't Canon.
The teams comments on the subject send out mixed messages to me.
But Sherlock seems pretty certain Moriarty is dead.
Mary being the arch villain would be a fantastic twist...I just honestly don't see them going there.
We may get more of Mary's back story and her past may well catch up with her.
I can't see Mycroft being a villain...unless he's some how being manipulated by somebody else.
I do feel they will just carry on with new villains, CAM, Toby's character...
I am certain they will all be brilliant but sigh, I doubt they will ever match Moriarty for me.

Last edited by besleybean (June 12, 2016 7:31 am)


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June 12, 2016 7:44 am  #69


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

CAM did match for me, given the little time we had with him.  I loved Moriarty, particularly in TRF, but there's something more ephemeral about him - I don't feel I really know him, we don't see where he (really) lives, his network is vague, he's unpredictable and seems mentally unstable, possibly, and he has an obsession with Sherlock (almost a mutal obsession) that reminds me of the point in the film Unbreakable about a nemesis needing a hero and a hero needing a nemesis.   CAM wasn't like that all.  He was a member of the establishment, exercising control over government in obvious ways, he didn't need a hero, but just to enjoy power, we saw where he lived, where he worked, how he operated.  I'm glad they chose a very different kind of villain, and I think it worked brilliantly. 

Yes, Moriarty is dead but Sherlock knows what he'll do next - I suppose Emilia died, but set up a situation where other women could pretend to be her, and carry on her "work".   I just feel that a Moriarty substitute won't be as good as Moriarty, or a new villain.

 

June 12, 2016 7:47 am  #70


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Oh I thought CAM was fantastic and a brilliant choice, to be literally the opposite of Moriarty...just why get rid of him so soon?
Your last comment is what concerns me...but possibly that's something I have to deal with!


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June 24, 2016 9:06 pm  #71


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

My personal favorite, in terms of MP timelines would be for it to start right after the Watson Domestic. Sherlock could be in a coma, and everything we saw from that point on could be MP.

 

June 25, 2016 7:39 am  #72


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Why would you want that?
What would your alternative be?


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October 5, 2016 6:09 pm  #73


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Okay guys, say goodbye to the theory. The tie and the scarf were indeed a case of missing props, and the differences between the two airplane interiors came through simple technical limitations.
It's a first hand information. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

October 5, 2016 6:19 pm  #74


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

^ I don't know why anybody says this whenever the writers are directly asked potentially spoilery questions. We know they lie; they aren't ever going to say "Oh yes, well spotted! That was entirely deliberate, just you wait and see."

Last edited by GimmeCat (October 5, 2016 6:19 pm)


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October 5, 2016 6:26 pm  #75


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

It's good to know at last.  I know people will say that they lie, but they don't really need to over this sort of thing - they can just deflect the question (as they often do).  At least this time, we'll find out soon enough (only three short months to go!).

 

October 5, 2016 7:28 pm  #76


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

We'll see, that's true.
What I found especially amusing: initially there were lines in the script making changing ties Mycroft's OCD, because they knew we would notice. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

October 5, 2016 8:47 pm  #77


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

JP wrote:

Okay guys, say goodbye to the theory. The tie and the scarf were indeed a case of missing props, and the differences between the two airplane interiors came through simple technical limitations.
It's a first hand information. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

I read your Twitter convo with Arwel and Douglas Mackinnon. What struck me was that Mackinnon himself brought up the idea that the TAB plane might not be real although you had not mentioned it at all if I remember correctly. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

October 5, 2016 9:12 pm  #78


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Yup. That conversation plus the fact that they mentioned lines being in the script is so very telling, IMO.

What's more likely: They plan lines in the script to point out a wardrobe error that .5% of the audience would have spotted, thus drawing it to 100% of the audience's attention thereafter for no apparent reason;

Or that they got cornered by a question concerning one of the "very obvious clues people have missed" and had to redirect it in order to save the surprise?

Balance of probability, little brothers and sisters. ;)

Last edited by GimmeCat (October 5, 2016 9:13 pm)


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October 5, 2016 10:01 pm  #79


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Yep, this one is bugging me a little, but well, we'll see. Both "technical mistakes" are not a proof that the scenes were real after all. So my "say goodbye to the theory" might have been a bit exaggerated. "Say good bye to the importance of those details" would probably be better. :D

 

October 9, 2016 7:47 am  #80


Re: The Tie Conundrum, and why S4 can't be trusted (Meta, Theory, SPOILER)

Less than 3 months for us to find out!


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