BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Just stumbled upon this article

besleybean · June 1, 2016 6:13 am

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/30/fandom-is-broken

Interesting thing, Mark had retweeted it.

Liberty · June 1, 2016 6:52 am

Scary stuff! I suppose it's true that the internet has made death threats easier.

I remember the Mass Effect thing. I felt pretty invested in the character, and had played the game over years, so the ending was a bit of a let down. It didn't occur to me to tweet the developers! The more extreme reactions seem to have passed me by.

I suppose if it turned out that Sherlock was secretly working for an evil organisation and was immoral, I would feel uncomfortable about it and feel Moftiss were changing the character in a way that bothered me. Of course it's up to them what they do with their character and I certainly wouldn't be tweeting or threatening. But maybe I'd find some comfort in a fandom that felt the same. Just trying to understand the feeling behind it.

I don't know about fanfic (just wondering because this is posted in the fanfic section) - when I wrote some I found the community was lovely and I didn't get any negativity over my takes on the characters. But that was a long time ago, and maybe things have changed in that community too (or maybe communities are different for different fandoms).

SolarSystem · June 1, 2016 7:21 am

Liberty wrote:
I suppose if it turned out that Sherlock was secretly working for an evil organisation and was immoral, I would feel uncomfortable about it and feel Moftiss were changing the character in a way that bothered me. Of course it's up to them what they do with their character and I certainly wouldn't be tweeting or threatening. But maybe I'd find some comfort in a fandom that felt the same. Just trying to understand the feeling behind it.

I think such a change in a character has to be made very, very plausible and has to make sense, or else I just would stop watching. It's as simple as that. Or to use the example that was given in the article: If I go to a museum and I see a work of art I don't like or don't find any connection to, I'll just walk on to the next painting. And yes, I would come to the fandom and see if there are any like-minded people to comfort me.
Nevertheless I think it's only natural that - especially when a show has been running for quite a while - you bring certain expectations and desires to the show. And it's just as natural that not all of what you'd like to see will actually happen (and of course you'd only wish for things which seem to be plausible and possible in relation to what the show has given you so far).
That doesn't mean that I don't respect the fact that the show doesn't belong to me and that the creators can do whatever they want with it. Of course they can. And they will. And I'm just as free to react to it accordingly.

Liberty · June 1, 2016 5:34 pm

Oh, I agree. I think it might have been more of a problem with Mass Effect because it came after not only spending a lot on the games, but playing our characters a certain way - I suppose that's the difference between a game (or that type of game, anyway) and a TV show. The character felt partially the player's creation, through our choices. Whereas I think that with a TV show, you're always aware that the characters aren't "yours" (even if you might embellish them in your own head). I think in both cases there can be an emotional investment, though.

Lola Red · June 1, 2016 7:06 pm

very interesting, upsetting and sadly true, but I do not know if it belongs in the fanfiction section (not quite sure where I would put it either). I think fantasizing in a medium that by definition is always an adaptation is very different from the entitlement mentioned in the article.

I personally have a hard time dealing with the extreme entitlement and negativity that I find in certain (parts of the) fandom(s). It has prevented me from joining both the DW and the GoT/ASOIAF fandoms altogether, and as far as Sherlock is concerned, this forum is the only interactive platform I care to engage with. I do not say I do not sometimes wish that certain aspects were done differently or fantasize over possibilities that seem exiting to me, but I would never dream to demand that anything should be changed according to my wishes. If I want to do my own version: there are plenty of outlets for that and if one had the talent and luck, one might be able to do it "for real" one day (which can and indeed has for many been a great motivator to go into any form of art). And if I truly do not like the direction an e.g show that I used to love takes, I simply stop watching. No use trying to upset anyone else, especially not the creators. They did, after all create or continued something I (once) care(d) about.

Schmiezi · June 6, 2016 4:28 am

I also feel like this is the wrong section of the forum to place that article. Mainly, I think of "fix-it fics" here.

Let me explain:
Fix-it fics take something you see on the show and don't agree with, and rewrite it so it fits what you want to see. To me, this is the opposite of sending death threads to the creators. It is playing with the stuff you are given, it is correcting what's wrong in your mind by creativity.

I write fix-it fics myself but it would never occur to me to write the creators and complain or demand something. If they decide to make Mary a glorious heroine, I will have to be very creative to fix that but still, I would never contact Moftiss about it.

Last edited by Schmiezi (June 6, 2016 4:29 am)

besleybean · June 6, 2016 5:39 am

I'm finding it vaguely amusing that people are mainly commenting on where the thread is!
I have said on many occasion I find the forum very confusing as to where to place things.
But honestly it's easily fixed. A mod simply has to move it.
I certainly can't do anything about it!
This is why I don't often start new topics!

Schmiezi · June 7, 2016 4:09 am

I think that we all agree that the article is sad but true, thatr's why there is no lively discussion about it. It reminded me again (a) why I shy away from most of the social media platforms and (b) what a wonderful and peaceful place the forum is.

Thanks to everybody for the later!!!

Liberty · June 7, 2016 6:19 am

I suppose one of the good things about fanfic is that it's not demanding anything of the original writers. It's just using their writing as inspiration. I can completely see why some writers don't like it, and there's no reason that they should have to, but I think that generally it's a nice, productive way to enjoy somebody's writing.

besleybean · June 7, 2016 6:20 am

Or to write your own version of a story.

Schmiezi · June 7, 2016 6:38 am

Exactly.

nakahara · June 7, 2016 6:44 am

Schmiezi wrote:
I think that we all agree that the article is sad but true, thatr's why there is no lively discussion about it. It reminded me again (a) why I shy away from most of the social media platforms and (b) what a wonderful and peaceful place the forum is.

Thanks to everybody for the later!!!

The article is not discussed here on the forum, but on the internet, it had quite a vocal response. For example this, from Elisabeth Minkel:

http://elizabethminkel.com/post/145279580436/entitled

nakahara · June 7, 2016 11:04 am

Another, very long response to the original article:

http://bookshop.tumblr.com/post/145327373853

SusiGo · June 7, 2016 12:06 pm

What I would be interested in is why Mark retweeted this. Was there any comment? Does he agree with the author? This would be strange from a man who has explicitly called himself and his good friend and co-author fanboys who write fan fiction.

Liberty · June 7, 2016 12:16 pm

I don't imagine he's criticising fanfiction, but maybe he's had problems with the "entitlement" and "threats" aspect. I hope not. But they are completely different things - I'm sure it's only a tiny minority of fans who send threats, and we don't know if they are even the same ones who write fanfiction.

besleybean · June 7, 2016 4:02 pm

Well he obviously has...as it was the threats against Mark and the sense of entitlement that Ian Hallard challenged in his long tweet that used to be in my signature.

Liberty · June 7, 2016 4:45 pm

That's very sad. He says he'd had to block people? I don't know if it's possible to see their tweets? (I'm not too familiar with twitter). I suppose we don't even know if it's about Sherlock, but maybe with setlock going on at the moment it's likely.

besleybean · June 7, 2016 4:47 pm

Yes I honestly didn't know the details of this particular piece.
I just saw it, thought it looked interesting and then I saw Mark had retweeted it...so he obviously gave it some significance.
But no, he didn't add any comment to his retweet.

Whisky · June 8, 2016 10:23 am

I'm not very familiar with the fandoms mentioned in the original article, so I find it difficult to form an opinion. I'm also not sure which parts exactly caused the outcry - some parts ring true, at least to me.
Apparently, people felt very offended.

I can relate to some aspects. I also get the feeling fans (or so-called fans, but I don't feel confident to judge who is a fan or not) tend to request certain outcomes for a show. Maybe "request" is a strong word, but there is an expectation for sure, which sometimes - or so I feel - is put forward with strong words.
I also feel that way within the Sherlock fandom. (As somebody who isn't very active in fandom, so maybe the bigger picture is a different one.)

Also found some more responses here
http://www.transformativeworks.org/this-week-in-fandom-volume-12/

Last edited by Whisky (June 8, 2016 10:32 am)

besleybean · June 8, 2016 10:28 am

I actually consider your response very mild.
In my experience, there are Sherlock fans who seem to feel an entitlement and virtually demand a certain outcome.
This is of course different form the decision to no longer watch a show(which doesn't go how you want it to), which is obviously a legitimate right.
But some of you know how unhappy I am at the footage of Mumbai event and fans shouting for Johnlock.
Well of course they exercised their right to do so, but then they had to listen to the reply.