BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Series 4 Setlock (potential spoilers)

Lilythiell · July 22, 2016 5:31 pm

I can't even with any of this, it's too much.
*deeeep breaths, deeeeep breaths*
And no.
*faints*

Vhanja · July 22, 2016 5:41 pm

Lautrela wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
Oh God, this reminds me of the panel inteview where Moffat makes a joke about top!Sherlock and Ben loses it.
I definitely need to see that one now ! I know that I'm way behind you guys, since I only joined the fandom recently and I keep discovering old stuff everyday...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPOTGibC3eI

Moffat starts commenting on fandom and fan works at about 37:00 (which is very interesting, what he says). Then he says the comment to Ben at around 38:00 and Ben just can't stop laughing until Moffat tells him to pull himself together - it's hilarious!

(Sorry for the OT, but this is just too good not to share to new people in the fandom!)

Last edited by Vhanja (July 22, 2016 5:44 pm)

Liberty · July 22, 2016 5:45 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
Me too, of course. I have no idea what a non-Johnlocker might expect now, so if someone likes to share their view ...

I am happy to! (Depending on what you mean by "Johnlocker"!   I'm a Johnlocker in the sense of supporting shipping them, fan fiction, etc., but I don't think it's actually happening in the show).   I'm just not sure whether to answer here or on the other thread.   I'll answer quickly here - might cross-post if it's something we want to talk about later ...

http://waitingforgarridebs.tumblr.com/post/147787163721/constancecream-steven-moffat-at-the-nerdist

He can't be talking about John or Sherlock here.   Their sexuality has been mentioned and and even made a "thing" at times, and he says that's not the way he show it.   If he's talking about BBC Sherlock, I suspect that the character that would fit best would be Mycroft. We don't know his orientation for sure, and it hasn't been made a thing of (although maybe a couple of little hints?), and it would be so easy for him just to have a male ex or whatever.

However, he wasn't talking specifically about BBC Sherlock at that point, so it might not be any character in it.   He's already written Vastra and Jenny (Doctor Who) in exactly this way.   They face some prejudice because Vastra is an alien, but the fact that they are both female is never mentioned or commented on, it just is.   And of course I could be wrong, but I assume he's saying that if he wanted to make John and Sherlock gay, he'd just have done it - it wouldn't be hidden, but it also wouldn't be commented on.

It reminds me a lot of Mark's comment on the same subject, about the "gently, gently" approach - you want to show people as gay but make it incidental, rather than the point.

Last edited by Liberty (July 22, 2016 5:47 pm)

Lilythiell · July 22, 2016 6:01 pm

Lautrela wrote:
*send you an ambulance*

*emerges*
Thanks
*faints again*

Lilythiell · July 22, 2016 6:02 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Lautrela wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
Oh God, this reminds me of the panel inteview where Moffat makes a joke about top!Sherlock and Ben loses it.
I definitely need to see that one now ! I know that I'm way behind you guys, since I only joined the fandom recently and I keep discovering old stuff everyday...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPOTGibC3eI

Moffat starts commenting on fandom and fan works at about 37:00 (which is very interesting, what he says). Then he says the comment to Ben at around 38:00 and Ben just can't stop laughing until Moffat tells him to pull himself together - it's hilarious!

(Sorry for the OT, but this is just too good not to share to new people in the fandom!)

That panel is awesome.
"Oh, pull yourself together, Ben!"
XD

tonnaree · July 22, 2016 6:03 pm

But Liberty, we've never had Sherlock's orientation confirmed.

Vhanja · July 22, 2016 6:06 pm

Lilythiell wrote:
That panel is awesome.
"Oh, pull yourself together, Ben!"
XD

It is, I love the entire thing! :D

(And Martin, who is usually quite sassy and raunchy himself, seems very little impressed with Moffat's comment )

Liberty · July 22, 2016 6:31 pm

I agree about the panel: worth re-posting! I love Benedict's reaction!

tonnaree wrote:
But Liberty, we've never had Sherlock's orientation confirmed.

I think that's kind of what he's saying - if he wanted to show a gay character they would just be gay and it would just be the most "normal" thing about them and not made a thing of (as with Vastra and Jenny), rather than something that's hidden, but mentioned as a "thing" several times (the "gay jokes", for lack of a better phrase to describe them!).

Last edited by Liberty (July 22, 2016 6:32 pm)

Vhanja · July 22, 2016 6:35 pm

Yeah, that has always been a good point, Liberty. Going with "softly, softly", what both Mark and Steven have said, how they would like to portray a gay couple in TV would be the exact opposite of what would happen with Sherlock if they fell in love in S4/S5. It wouldn't be natural and not mentioned - it would be a huge twist and the focus point of all. The exact opposite of what they would be going for, according to their own words.

(And you're welcome )

Last edited by Vhanja (July 22, 2016 6:40 pm)

This Is The Phantom Lady · July 22, 2016 7:29 pm

I need to watch that panel when I can, thanks for the link!

If we do get any Johnlock-ish things I think it will be subtle... there might be some hints for the hardcore fans... but I don't think we'll get anything totally blatant... and as much as I ship those two I think I'd prefer it that way

GimmeCat · July 22, 2016 9:46 pm

I don't think it would be a "twist", as I see the entire show as basically one giant love story from the start- as Martin did, way back before they scared him into stuttering vagueness.

And I don't think a confirmation of that would have anything to do with either/both of them being gay. The "being gay" part is the thing treated as no big deal. It's not the point. But the "being in love" part is, and there's no stipulations about leaving that part ambiguous, is there?

ewige · July 22, 2016 9:48 pm

GimmeCat wrote:
I don't think it would be a "twist", as I see the entire show as basically one giant love story from the start- as Martin did, way back before they scared him into stuttering vagueness.

And I don't think a confirmation of that would have anything to do with either/both of them being gay. The "being gay" part is the thing treated as no big deal. It's not the point. But the "being in love" part is, and there's no stipulations about leaving that part ambiguous, is there?

That. Absolutely. Thank you.

This Is The Phantom Lady · July 22, 2016 10:23 pm

And that's how I like it, not all flash "OMG He or she is gay?! Wow!!" it's just how things are, just a part of the person, you know?

Liberty · July 23, 2016 6:17 am

That's pretty much how it's shown with Vastra and Jenny. It's not commented on, and the audiences just accept two women kissing in a children's show. Very similar to what Mark Gatiss said about the detective coming home and kissing his husband. It's kind of the opposite of what we see in "Sherlock" if John and Sherlock are gay - it's hidden, and it is commented on (several times). If he's talking about Sherlock, he does seem to be denying that they're gay, because it's not the way he would show it. It's a possibility, but what he's saying doesn't fit with what he's already shown us. But I do wonder if he's talking more generally, as that seems to be the context in which the question was asked.

This has been one of the difficulties I have with TJLC. I don't think it's the way the writers would choose to show gay characters - to hide it like that, and have it in codes and clues, ready for a big surprise "reveal". If you're talking about TV as an agent for social change (which the question was about), the series has been going since 2010 - that's six years in which social change was happening without them (same sex marriage was legalised), and in which LGBT people were growing up - a massive missed opportunity, if that's what they were going for. So I don't think they can have been going for that.

Do you think this should move to the other thread?

Last edited by Liberty (July 23, 2016 6:27 am)

ewige · July 23, 2016 8:57 pm

Alright guys, I have controversial information here. Have they finished filming Sherlock yet? I thought it was about Amanda only and the main cast had like two weeks to go yet?

poorannie13 · July 24, 2016 12:55 am

So some russian websites say they've officially finished but i'm not sure where this information comes from.

Okay, now i can say the information is wrong. They have a couple of weeks left, as Mark says.

Last edited by poorannie13 (July 24, 2016 11:13 am)

Schmiezi · July 24, 2016 5:14 am

SusiGo wrote:
Tumblr just exploded. Steven Moffat at Nerdist panel:

http://waitingforgarridebs.tumblr.com/post/147787163721/constancecream-steven-moffat-at-the-nerdist

It seems we are in for something bigger than the Woman, the Fall, The Hound, and the Wedding together. What can it possibly be? I will leave you to your deductions.

So now there are some posts on what it can NOT be. What can it be then?

Liberty · July 24, 2016 7:25 am

I don't know! It's fun to speculate, obviously. I suspect that the "wish fulfillment" is Moftiss's rather than the fans (although they count as fans too!) - something they've really wanted to do with the show, something they thought of saving till the end, but have gone ahead and done. A major character death would be big, but not wish fulfillment. I know they wanted Andrew back and it looks like they've done that. Turning Mary into an uber-villain perhaps (she's kind of an original character for them, really), but not the hugest of plot twists. They are Bond fans and there have been some Bond-like elements in Setlock - or maybe they're finally going to do the Sherlock/Doctor Who crossover (I'm kidding, I think)! I don't know, but I'm sure there will be little hints in interviews and so on.

I've seen a few things on the net this morning - they described S4 in one word, and of course now I can't find a link to it. Steven has apparently said more about his comments on the Nerdist panel (about gay characters), but I've moved it over to the debate thread as it might be a little bit contentious, I think.

Liberty · July 24, 2016 8:27 am

https://www.periscope.tv/prilvsrk/1lDxLQqVgLkKm Sound not clear, but there's a helpful transcript:

http://constancecream.tumblr.com/post/147880827158/sdcc16-sherlock-panel-clip-transcript#147880827158 A little bit about Mary's "death" (or was it just a messy divorce? ;)).

http://cupidford.tumblr.com/post/147865530555/entertainment-weekly-steven-moffat-talks-about

Can't find the link, but I think the four words I read were Mark "broadcasted", Steven "terminal", Amanda "devastating" and (I think) Sue "Amanda". (Oh, found one - at the bottom: http://cupidford.tumblr.com/post/147864746950/cupidford-cupidford-x-x-x-x-x-conival )

Mary's character in S4 is different to S3 Mary https://twitter.com/masterpiecepbs/status/756921743042686976

And this one strongly implies that Mary has at least one more assassination to go before we're done! https://twitter.com/Sherlock221B/status/756924499841339397

I suppose the biggest (really obvious) message I'm getting is that Mary is important in S4. (And that she's not going to be the sidekick, it's not going to be a crime-solving trio - something much bigger and darker's going to happen).

(I don't know if these should go in the SDCC thread, but all these things, especially the one I put in the debate thread, are a little bit spoilery, so I'm leaving them here for now - happy to move if they're better elsewhere!).

Last edited by Liberty (July 24, 2016 9:18 am)

poorannie13 · July 24, 2016 10:38 am

Thanks for sharing the links!

Yeah, seems like Mary's gonna be a huge part of S4.