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February 25, 2016 12:12 am  #1


Pronunciation of place names

Watching a Sherlock-related fanvid on YouTube, I was distracted by the mispronunciation of "Belgravia" (it's bel-GRAY-vee-uh), but I was reminded of my own mistakes when I lived in London for a few years. I got several place names embarrassingly wrong, but I soon learnt the correct pronunciations of most of them. Southwark, Grosvenor Square, Holborn, Islington, Marylebone, Leicester Square, Ruislip, even Pall Mall, were some of my most memorable blunders. I had an American flatmate who pronounced "Burrough" as "burrow" but he said "Edinburg" when talking of Edinburgh.

The pronunciation of many English place names is so counterintuitive to the way they are spelled, or at least to how I was taught to spell/sound out words as an Australian. I might have picked up some correct pronunciations by watching tv shows or films produced in the UK, or by hearing my parents say them. I wish I had been able to watch this YouTube video before I went to the UK:




It's the same for some Australian place names. Brisbane and Melbourne are pretty commonly mispronounced. Well, I'm sure every country has place names that are confusing for outsiders. What are some of the ones from your country that you know of?

Last edited by ukaunz (February 25, 2016 12:13 am)


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February 25, 2016 2:25 am  #2


Re: Pronunciation of place names

Haha, yeah that happens all over the UK, where I orignate from in the UK has a couple of good ones such as
Smethwick= Smethick (with th from the, then etc not TH)

But Norfolk in the UK where I live now has some even better ones.
Costessy=Cossee
Hapisburgh=Haysborough

I love English it's such a messed up mongrel of prounciations!


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February 25, 2016 2:55 am  #3


Re: Pronunciation of place names

And it's so inconsistent, like with Aldwych (ALL-dwitch) and Dulwich (DULL-itch)

But yeah, I love it too

Last edited by ukaunz (February 25, 2016 2:57 am)


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February 25, 2016 4:02 am  #4


Re: Pronunciation of place names

We have some like that in Canada. There are others, but the one that comes to mind at the moment is Sault Ste. Marie which is pronounced Soo Saint Marie. Sometimes we call it The Soo for short. And sometimes we jokingly call it Salty Saint Mary's because of the incongruity between the spelling and the pronunciation of it.

There are also places in Canada named after places in other countries (like UK) with less than obvious pronunciation.

I must admit when I was a little kid at first I thought Greewich was "Green witch" and that until I heard it said coorectly I thought Belgravia was Bellgrahvia.

Last edited by Yitzock (February 25, 2016 4:04 am)



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February 25, 2016 4:28 am  #5


Re: Pronunciation of place names

They never actually say the word Belgravia in ASIB, do they? I never really thought about it before, that people wouldn't know how to pronounce it even after watching the episode.


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February 25, 2016 5:00 am  #6


Re: Pronunciation of place names

Yitzock wrote:

We have some like that in Canada. There are others, but the one that comes to mind at the moment is Sault Ste. Marie which is pronounced Soo Saint Marie. Sometimes we call it The Soo for short. And sometimes we jokingly call it Salty Saint Mary's because of the incongruity between the spelling and the pronunciation of it.

That reminds me, I recently watched some movie or show (can't remember what it was) that had a character called St. John but it was pronounced "Sinjun" or "Sinjin". Weird!

I must admit when I was a little kid at first I thought Greewich was "Green witch"

 
I think it was the same for me too. It rings a bell, anyway


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February 25, 2016 6:00 am  #7


Re: Pronunciation of place names

What I find distressing is Milton Keynes compared to John Maynard Keynes 


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February 25, 2016 6:42 am  #8


Re: Pronunciation of place names

Let's face it, English is just nuts anyway.
But in recent times, I even notice some TV presenters pronouncing things in an odd way.
Apparently I can't say 'Frasier', as in the American sitcom.
But yeah, Milton Kaynes...and Maynard Keens, is an odd one!


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February 25, 2016 7:04 am  #9


Re: Pronunciation of place names

I've never heard it pronounced Milton Kaynes 


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February 25, 2016 7:08 am  #10


Re: Pronunciation of place names

Oh feck, nor have I!
Sorry, I'm full of cold.
I got that the wrong way around!
The place is Milton Keens.
The man is Maynard Kaynes.
But I have no idea why...except wasn't Keynes American?


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February 25, 2016 7:15 am  #11


Re: Pronunciation of place names

Oh okay, that makes sense now

How about Derby, pronounced "Darby" in the UK but "Derby" in the US, and same with the word clerk which is pronounced "clark" in the UK.


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February 25, 2016 7:20 am  #12


Re: Pronunciation of place names

Well of course they should both be Clerk and Derby.
But the silly English language pronounces them as Clark and Darby.
I do not defend my language in these instances.
Similarly I prefer American spellings.

Last edited by besleybean (February 25, 2016 4:53 pm)


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February 25, 2016 7:23 am  #13


Re: Pronunciation of place names

In Australia, we just get terribly confused, and use a mixture of both.

I prefer Ye olde English, myself

I remember being taught the word "gaol" when I was a kid, but it seems that the accepted spelling is now "jail". Probably just easier to say prison


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February 25, 2016 7:24 am  #14


Re: Pronunciation of place names

Yes, it's not just people from outside the UK who have trouble with our place names - we have trouble within the UK too!  A lot of the examples in the video are impossible to guess, you just have to know how they're pronounced from having heard them.   Which is fine for more famous place names that you might have heard on TV, but not so easy for unknown local ones!   

There's also quite a mix of languages and dialects, so you get sounds like the Welsh "ll" or the Scots "ch", which are impossible for people from some parts of the UK (but "ch" seems to be perfectly easy for some other Europeans!).    I'm still getting used to living in England and coping with missing "r"s and "wh"s.  Welsh names are actually pretty easy if you know Welsh - they tend to be pronounced just as they're written.  But not many people outside of Wales know Welsh.

"Edinburg" isn't too bad and is understandable (it's not spelt "...borough" after all, and I think most people would know what he meant).  The neighbouring big city, Glasgow, traditionally pronounce Edinburgh, "Embra".  (But Glaswegian seems to be one of the more unintelligible accents to those outside). 

St. John/Sinjun is another of those names you just have to know.  A bit like Menzies/Mingus (although sometimes it IS pronounced Menzies, you have to know on an individual basis!). 

Last edited by Liberty (February 25, 2016 7:25 am)

 

February 25, 2016 12:20 pm  #15


Re: Pronunciation of place names

John Maynard Keynes was English, a Cambridge scholar, but apparently never lived in Milton Keynes 


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February 25, 2016 1:23 pm  #16


Re: Pronunciation of place names

ukaunz wrote:

I prefer Ye olde English, myself

(Adopts fake pompous voice) And this is, of course, pronounced "The old English," and not "Yee oldey English," as you might expect! (/fake pompous voice)

I only learned that recently myself (thanks, QI!).  We've all been saying 'Ye' forever but the 'Y' is an old-fashioned way of writing 'Th.'

Kent is a wonderful county for diabolical place names, like Wrotham (Rootem) and Meopham (Meppum).  My favouite, though, is Trottiscliffe which you would never in a million years guess is pronounced Trozlee.  Many years ago a friend and I drove there, got a bit lost a couple of miles away and pulled over to ask directions from a local.  My friend said to him, "Is this the right road for Trozlee?" and he stared blankly at her for a few seconds, then recovered and said, "Yes!  Sorry - I was so confused that you didn't ask for Trot-iz-cliff like most tourists do, that I couldn't think what you were talking about for a moment!"
 

 

February 25, 2016 1:39 pm  #17


Re: Pronunciation of place names

I'm Norwegian, and I am often confused by how to pronounce names of places as it's not consistent with what I've learned.

For instance, the word "reading" (I am reading a book) is pronounced different from the place Reading in England. Also, I don't see why "Edinburgh" is spelled that way seeing as many places in Britain are named -borough. (I've always said "Edinburg" in Norwegian, only learned the right way a few years ago).


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February 25, 2016 3:23 pm  #18


Re: Pronunciation of place names

Trozlee -  !!!


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February 25, 2016 4:46 pm  #19


Re: Pronunciation of place names

Love this video! I would have done better than he did but by no means … Leominster … good heavens! I wonder how many Brits would fail this test or are do they know how to pronounce all these places? 

Btw, I once heard that Pontefract was pronounce Pomfret. Is this true? I could not find a definite explanation. 


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February 25, 2016 4:56 pm  #20


Re: Pronunciation of place names

No, as a Yorkshire woman I can assure you it is pronounced  'Pon tea fract'.

Ah now.
The whole of my life in England(nearly 30 years), there were 3 places I never knew how you pronounced and I have only learned them in recent years:
Bicester, Leominster and Towcester.


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