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January 9, 2016 7:25 pm  #621


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Well marriage is a real thing and fairy tale endings and happy ever afters are the idealists dream.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 9, 2016 7:25 pm  #622


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

@Besley:
In TAB it is the last scene. And why do you think John is about to home to his wife? There is not mention of Mary in that scene at all. 

Last edited by SusiGo (January 9, 2016 7:26 pm)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

January 9, 2016 7:26 pm  #623


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I've just started to watch it for the... about 4th time and I still wonder about how they cut the scenes from the other episodes together in the very beginnig. For instance, not all of them are in the right order. I  especially think about those points:

- voice-over from Sherlock saying 'those things will kill you' while seeing the the beginnig of the fall (of course we don't get to see the entire fall. And as we know, it's not the fall that kills you, it's the landing - which we don't see. ;) But I guess it's just a nice nod from the cutter.)

- Sherlock getting attacked by a very angry John at the beginnig from TEH cut together with 'We're going to need to coordinate' from TRF. Just seems a little weird to me.

- Sherlock: "Who needs me this time?" - Moriarty: "Miss me?" - Mycroft: "England."
Once again, it most probably means absolutely nothing, but later on in the episode, Mary gets a message from someone who calls himself 'M' and says to Mrs. Hudson, that a friend needs help, and as Mrs. Hudson asks who it is, she answers: England. I assume it's a hint at Mycroft as we later on see her working for him and him being a part of the British Governement in the modern version. But as there are many people going by the letter M (Mycroft/Moriarty/Moran/Magnusson), of course it is possible she refers to someone else.

That's it, I just had to write down what crossed my strange, strange mind. I'm quite sure it doesn't mean anything.
 

Last edited by James Norrington (January 9, 2016 7:26 pm)


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"Love something, and love it deeply."
Andrew Scott

"I don’t care how hypothetical it is, I’m not flying with a live otter in the flight deck."
Captain Martin Crieff
 

January 9, 2016 7:28 pm  #624


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Glad you raised this, James...it was a bit of a puzzle.


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January 9, 2016 7:41 pm  #625


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

James and Besley I agree . Next time I watch TAB maybe with a list of the order of the modern scenes.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

January 9, 2016 7:44 pm  #626


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I just remember on Twitter, somebody tweeting: the houses of parliament just blew up at the wrong time...took me a moment to realise what they were referring to!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 9, 2016 7:57 pm  #627


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Watching TAB yet again today (and I loved the big screen experience last week!) ,  I am struck again about how beautifully the music is woven in and out of time periods,  with nods to previous themes.  Lovely snippet of the ASIB "The Woman" theme (Sherlock's violin composition) for example, just as we see the legion of hooded women for the first time...

Anyway, another bravo on the soundtrack efforts.

 

January 9, 2016 8:00 pm  #628


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

besleybean wrote:

I just remember on Twitter, somebody tweeting: the houses of parliament just blew up at the wrong time...took me a moment to realise what they were referring to!

Yes, I knew there was something else that puzzled me! I wondered why they put it in at all because it actually never really happened...

@CarlPowers: Oh god yes! The soundtrack is really beautiful, especially at the part where Sherlock sits and goes through the newspaper-snippets, it's incredibly beautiful.
 


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"Love something, and love it deeply."
Andrew Scott

"I don’t care how hypothetical it is, I’m not flying with a live otter in the flight deck."
Captain Martin Crieff
 

January 9, 2016 8:09 pm  #629


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

You know how we in the Sherlock fandom have over active imaginations?
I almost got a shiver at that line: it actually never really happened, thinking perhaps it had some hidden meaning.
But maybe it was rather just to tell us that some of the things in the Special, weren't going to be real.
But then they presented them as : first there was this...with dates.
Only when it came to the Victorian, did it hint at an alternative version...
The pastiche of real and imaginary, is really like Sherlock's near-death experience in HLV, but also the versions of his jump in TEH.
After the jump, Sherlock was dead to the world but in reality was dismantling Moriarty's web.
After his near-death, he comes back.
The bride rises again and murders...
What does this all tell us about Moriarty?


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January 9, 2016 8:27 pm  #630


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

besleybean wrote:

You know how we in the Sherlock fandom have over active imaginations?

Oh, I may have noticed that from time to time... Can't say how glad I am to be able to come here and find that I'm not the only one who tends to over-interpret everything! :D

Yeah, it really could be they were trying to remind us that in the past episodes not everything they've shown us was real and therefore we should be watching out for those things in the Special. :D

The dates confused me a bit as well: I mean, I know that series 1 was first shown in 2010 and the series 2 in 2012 and so on, but the stories didn't take place in those years apparently. So when the date changes to the Victorian, it maybe was already a hint that we're not about to really go to 1880...

I love your summary! That's good, because there are so many things that just do feel strange in this matter (what about the two pistols-solution f.e. ?). But unfortunately, I don't see it bringing us anywhere near a solution because we'll just have to sit here, go on about whether he's really dead or not and wait until series 4... But I love speculating!

 


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"Love something, and love it deeply."
Andrew Scott

"I don’t care how hypothetical it is, I’m not flying with a live otter in the flight deck."
Captain Martin Crieff
 

January 9, 2016 8:30 pm  #631


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Yes, the 2 pistols one isn't really something I've addressed...
It's possible Moriarty could have done the same!


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January 9, 2016 8:36 pm  #632


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Yeah, I know, I just wanted to add something to your other great points.
It could be that he did something like that. I mean, if the Ricoletti-case really happened in the past (as Sherlock claims at one point, but of course, that still was a part of his MP), Sherlock might not be the only one who knew about it.

 

Last edited by James Norrington (January 9, 2016 8:36 pm)


------------------------------------------------------------
"Love something, and love it deeply."
Andrew Scott

"I don’t care how hypothetical it is, I’m not flying with a live otter in the flight deck."
Captain Martin Crieff
 

January 9, 2016 8:51 pm  #633


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I definitely think the sequence at the beginning was giving us clues - it was very odd.  And I agree about the two-pistol solution - that's the bit that doesn't make sense to me - why is Sherlock so sure Moriarty didn't fake his death after just working out how Emilia faked her death?  Do we just have to accept that?  And are they going to say later "Ha ha, you believed us, but missed this vital clue" even when we didn't?

 

January 9, 2016 9:08 pm  #634


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Well, we can see how she would have done it - she had two guns.  As far as we've seen, Moriarty only had one, and we see the blood from his head.  Sherlock figures out how a fake suicide could be done, but the circumstances that allow it are not what Moriarty had, so Moriarty couldn't have survived, as far as Sherlock has gathered.



Clueing for looks.
 

January 9, 2016 9:10 pm  #635


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

So IS the whole purpose of AOB to lay Moriarty to rest for good?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 9, 2016 9:14 pm  #636


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Well, I don't know whether I'd say the "whole" purpose is that but....it could be the way they chose to explain why Moriarty couldn't really be back, at least not as the person we saw before.  But I guess we'll see if there's much else that we don't know yet.



Clueing for looks.
 

January 9, 2016 9:23 pm  #637


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

@Liberty: They should know by now that the longer they keep us waiting, the more we're looking at every single picture of every episode hundreds of times, so my guess is that they know very well what they gave us: Other riddles to keep us busy and confuse us until series 4. :D

More things I just thought about (and I'm sure they have been brought up in this thread before, but I can't help myself):

- In the waterfall-sequence, is Sherlock (with a little help from his John) getting rid of his 'Mind Palace Virus' once and for all? Because only Sherlock states 'I always survive a fall', before he flies down.

- After that, he wakes up and goes 'miss me?' Now there was this strange thing that maybe Sherlock has risen as a new Moriarty because him always being a part of him? I don't know exactly myself what I mean by this, it's just something that crossed my mind. But, and that's almost as unlikely as my sentence before, he assumes that Mycroft is behind the entire 'Miss me?' story (that was something I once started to think of after the series 3 finale, that it could be Mycrofts way to save his little brother after all or that he'd gone bad, but after the special that seems a bit more unlikely) and therefore addresses him with it.

I know, I'm tired and my mind starts to make up stupid things, but just one more:

"Of course he’s dead. He blew his own brains out. No-one survives that. I just went to the trouble of an overdose to prove it."
Sherlock always thought Moriarty was dead. Before Mycroft called he - I guess - didn't know anyone doubted that. So his conclusion of 'he blew his own brains out, no-one survives that' is just the same he already had after TRF and didn't come from his overdose-caused deductions. And after all, it really is a fact, but the point remains: What if he didn't really blow his minds out, how could he have survived then?

2. In this overdose-sequence he actually found out that the bride didn't kill herself in the first place but faked it using another pistol but killed herself afterwards and was then replaced by other persons claiming to be her. If the bride was a stand-in for Moriarty all along:  Moriarty didn't fake his death, then came back to murder someone and then killed himself (but of course, yes, he didn't seem to have a second pistol as well). If we are to believe the rooftop-shooting, he was dead after that straight away, so there was one step left out. Unless of course Sherlock knows something we can't know because it was never shown, but that would be disappointing and I want to believe that the writer's wouldn't go that way.

 

Last edited by James Norrington (January 9, 2016 9:26 pm)


------------------------------------------------------------
"Love something, and love it deeply."
Andrew Scott

"I don’t care how hypothetical it is, I’m not flying with a live otter in the flight deck."
Captain Martin Crieff
 

January 9, 2016 9:25 pm  #638


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

It really just needs a sound effect to replace the second gun (or a hidden second gun).  And fake blood (another trick that Emilia used).   I agree, Yitzock, but I'm just saying that it doesn't quite hold together and leaves it open for speculation.   I think it would have been better to make it clear that Sherlock saw Moriarty's wound on the roof (or later, in a mortuary) - I do think that's implied in TAB, but it's not made explicit. (Unless it's meant to be open for speculation!).

 

January 9, 2016 9:28 pm  #639


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I hope they wouldn't go down the route that Moriarty really is a creation of Sherlock's...mind!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 9, 2016 9:46 pm  #640


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Yeah, me neither...
After reading my previous post once again, the only thing I can say: MOFTISS, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY MIND?!???


------------------------------------------------------------
"Love something, and love it deeply."
Andrew Scott

"I don’t care how hypothetical it is, I’m not flying with a live otter in the flight deck."
Captain Martin Crieff
 

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