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October 4, 2015 4:52 pm  #1


The third explanation

I found this idea quite interesting and did not know where to put it, hence this new thread. I think many of us could not shake the feeling that the third and last fall theory is not really what happened either. Sloppy writing by Mark? Too much overthinking on the fandom's side? This is another explanation which makes sense to me (and which might become important in future episodes with regard to the Sherlock/Mycroft dynamic):

http://monikakrasnorada.tumblr.com/post/130476396572/the-empty-hearse-the-empty-falls
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

October 4, 2015 6:00 pm  #2


Re: The third explanation

"The first story is Anderson’s fantasy. Sherlock as action hero, he gets the girl.The second story is Laura fangirl’s fantasy. Sherlock as cynical anti-hero, he gets the boy.The third story is Sherlock’s fantasy. Sherlock and Mycroft are equal partners. No manipulation, no suspicion, no secrets between them. They trust each other, they calculate every logical solution. Together, they win the game against Moriarty."

Oh, I never thought about those explanations this way. Especially I never noticed the anti-hero touch to the girl's version, actually.
Not that it brings us nearer to the real explanation though. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/depressed.png

 

October 4, 2015 6:38 pm  #3


Re: The third explanation

Excellent perspective.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
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"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
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"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
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October 4, 2015 6:39 pm  #4


Re: The third explanation

Interesting idea there.

Personally, I believe Sherlock's explanation as what really happened unless it's ever proven otherwise in the show, but I know that not everybody thinks the same as me and that's fine.  I'd rather not make another discussion of that since it's already been had and is not what we're really talking about here.

However, I don't think that conflicts with something else the poster is saying, and I think I can agree with that.  Even if, like me, you believe that that is how Sherlock survived, there still is the fact that there is something between him and Mycroft that is "broken," as the poster describes it.  You can it even with Mycroft's disconnection from everything even as he's helping his brother with the plan. While it could be read as Mycroft's usual detachment, it is still more detached that what one might expect from someone helping their brother.  But then again, maybe that's just the way Mycroft handles everything, family-related or not.


http://orig11.deviantart.net/078e/f/2015/207/f/e/consulting_detective_2_by_sakuranakamura-d92vt40.pnghttp://orig08.deviantart.net/8f4e/f/2015/198/4/2/blogger_by_sakuranakamura-d91o4zv.png
Clueing for looks.
 

October 4, 2015 10:23 pm  #5


Re: The third explanation

That is an interesting interpretation. I also feel there is something not quite right about the third explanation. Did you see the tumblr comment below the meta by melmey-fanfics? "Makes me think about the setlock pictures that show Mycroft and Moriarty on the pavement in front of St. Bart. If I remember correctly they were taken the day they shot the fall and Andrew Scott wore the Belstaff coat. Might be a scene they will use in the future to show how Mycroft plotted something withe Moriarty."

This thought gives me chills...


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http://s6.postimg.org/dh9cqa93l/sherlock_sketch_signature.jpg
 

October 4, 2015 11:18 pm  #6


Re: The third explanation

I don't think so.  I remember reading somewhere that it was a deleted scene that was going to be from one of the theories.  Though your suggestion is an interesting one, I don't think that's what that was about.


http://orig11.deviantart.net/078e/f/2015/207/f/e/consulting_detective_2_by_sakuranakamura-d92vt40.pnghttp://orig08.deviantart.net/8f4e/f/2015/198/4/2/blogger_by_sakuranakamura-d91o4zv.png
Clueing for looks.
 

October 5, 2015 9:31 am  #7


Re: The third explanation

I've heard the scene was a red herring.

 

October 5, 2015 10:11 am  #8


Re: The third explanation

JP wrote:

I've heard the scene was a red herring.

Yeah, heard that, too, but what if this is a lie? ;)
 


------------------------------------------------------------
"Love something, and love it deeply."
Andrew Scott

"I don’t care how hypothetical it is, I’m not flying with a live otter in the flight deck."
Captain Martin Crieff
 

October 5, 2015 12:10 pm  #9


Re: The third explanation

Of course it could be a double red hering.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

October 5, 2015 12:28 pm  #10


Re: The third explanation

Or a triple red herring!

(sorry, I couldn't help myself)  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German   http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.gif
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
http://media-cache-ec3.pinimg.com/736x/aa/2b/35/aa2b352725f4c944599a3ea17cbfe44e.jpg    https://31.media.tumblr.com/bb0f8896a79d19602eeaea0254ff5ccd/tumblr_n5ztxjGDB61stgn3no1_500.jpg
 
 

October 5, 2015 12:54 pm  #11


Re: The third explanation

tonnaree wrote:

Or a triple red herring!

(sorry, I couldn't help myself)  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

OMG, my head just exploded! :D

But back to topic, as I still am not satisfied with the third explanation being the one that actually happened I am always glad to hear about new theories and I quite like this one because it's not unlikely. Actually, it's an interesting idea regarding the relationship between the two Holmes-brothers and the character of Sherlock who, despite acting otherwise, wishes a closer working relationship, as equals. And just imagine how good they would be, if you think about the little deductional fight they had about the hat..
I like that idea it just being a dream version of his. But I doubt they actually made it up as being like that.
 


------------------------------------------------------------
"Love something, and love it deeply."
Andrew Scott

"I don’t care how hypothetical it is, I’m not flying with a live otter in the flight deck."
Captain Martin Crieff
 

October 5, 2015 2:09 pm  #12


Re: The third explanation

tonnaree wrote:

Or a triple red herring!
(sorry, I couldn't help myself)  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

And I was hoping someone will take the bait. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/devious.png

 

October 5, 2015 5:00 pm  #13


Re: The third explanation

Good read - the psychological approach to analyzing Sherlock's version of the story, with respect to his relationship with Mycroft, is quite interesting.

I am personally not satisfied with Sherlock's explanation of the fall.  I've described why in another thread (basically, the version he begins to tell John implies a solution found by quick-thinking, whereas the version he tells Anderson is that everything was forseen and planned for ahead of time).

However, I feel fairly sure that we will not hear any more about this in the story.  It seems like that's what TEH was all about - they offer some theories, and even the one told from the horse's mouth, and it's up to us to either accept or reject it.  It was left ambiguous on purpose.

--------------------------------

I don't really watch television, except when I hear about an exceptional show that gets people thinking.  The last such show I got enthralled with was Lost.  I learned a lot about theorizing, and the reality of a scripted show (and how it's always much less clever than all the theories the fanatics come up with).

I feel like Sherlock follows a similar "mystery" approach to Lost.  You get a massive "lego set" of ideas, which can be used to construct hundreds of theories.  However, there is never a way to use every single piece to make a grand theory - there are just too many conflicting pieces.  And most importantly, we the viewers are never told the actual answer.

But that's okay.  While we might like to get a solid answer from the writers, it's way more fun connecting all the pieces in different ways and discussing the possibilies (hence why most of us come to places like this).

In fact, I always found this "mystery" approach to be a gift.  If we are told "this is how it happened...", then we are done with it.  But if all we're given is a rich set of tantalizing clues, we get to think, ponder, and theorize - we exercise our minds and imaginations.

And the grandest ideas now come from our own imaginations.  By filling in the blanks ourselves, we create in our minds a much greater interpretation of the story than the writers could provide us with themselves.

At least, that's how I've always seen it.

 

October 21, 2015 4:03 pm  #14


Re: The third explanation

Now I found this explanation which I like even better and which seems to explain everything about Lazarus theory (I hope). What it has in common with the above meta is that is assumes that the third explanation just happens in someone's imagination:

http://wellthengameover.tumblr.com/post/131624883057/someone-pointed-out-that-the-lazarus-explanation
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

October 21, 2015 4:33 pm  #15


Re: The third explanation

Interesting idea.  The only thing about this I don't understand is how Sherlock could be telling Anderson about John's theory.

 

October 21, 2015 4:36 pm  #16


Re: The third explanation

Yes, I thought about that, too. We do not know how public or well-known The Empty Hearse is. But we know that Lestrade visited John in MHR and he might have mentioned it at this or a later point. And if you compare Mrs Hudson's reaction in TEH with Lestrade's visit in MHR, we might also assume that there has been some contact between him and John. But of course this is pure speculation. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

October 21, 2015 5:06 pm  #17


Re: The third explanation

If this script (thanks, Ariane, you're the best as always, I omitted parts for better overview) is correct, it can be very well be John's imagination after him closing his eyes. Then also Anderson's hysteria would be John's imagination.

(Sherlock looks at him, his eyes wide and tear-filled. John sighs, lowering his head again before raising it once more.)
JOHN: Yes, of course I forgive you.
(Sherlock gazes at him. John meets his eyes for a moment, then he takes in a deep breath through his nose, closes his eyes, raises his head and braces himself for death.)

The scene whites out.

From the point of view of a video camera, Sherlock is sitting on a sofa in front of a window and looking directly into the camera.
SHERLOCK: The criminal network Moriarty headed was vast.
(Cutaway shot of Sherlock standing beside Mycroft as he sits in his office in the Diogenes Club. Mycroft appears to be reading a report; Sherlock is looking at his phone.)

(Narration Sherlock omitted)

In front of the video camera, Sherlock looks dispassionately into the lens. Anderson is sitting on a chair on the other side of the camera.
SHERLOCK: Everything was anticipated; every eventuality allowed for. It worked ... (he smiles slightly) ... perfectly.

(Narration Sherlock omitted, ends with)

ANDERSON (even softer, with a combination of amusement and exasperation): Sherlock!
(His chuckle slowly develops into laughter, and then into hysterical laughter as he tears at the papers on the wall, ripping them off and whooping and giggling. Eventually he collapses in the corner, rising up onto his knees to continue clawing at the papers and still laughing hysterically until he slumps back down again.)

The whited-out scene fades back in again and John is standing in the Tube carriage with his eyes closed and his head raised. He grips the handrail and lowers his head, blowing out a long breath.
(...)

Last edited by Harriet (October 21, 2015 5:08 pm)


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October 21, 2015 5:09 pm  #18


Re: The third explanation

Yes, I think that fact of John closing and opening his eyes as a frame for the explanation is quite convincing. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

October 21, 2015 5:12 pm  #19


Re: The third explanation

Harriet wrote:

If this script (thanks, Ariane, you're the best as always, I omitted parts for better overview) is correct, it can be very well be John's imagination after him closing his eyes. Then also Anderson's hysteria would be John's imagination.

This is actually a very compelling idea.

I've heard some criticisms of TEH, how Sherlock's explanation seemed jammed into the episode at a seemingly random or arbitrary point.

But this interpetation would make the placement of that scene make complete sense.

 

October 21, 2015 5:15 pm  #20


Re: The third explanation

Yes. I always had difficulties in understanding why it was placed there and how it did fit in the narrative but this explains so many things. And it tells us a lot about John's feelings and his way of thinking and how he perceives Sherlock. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

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