BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Your Victor Trevor headcanons

nakahara · July 29, 2015 7:06 pm

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
nakahara wrote:
RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
So, of course-- I'm making *my* Victor a homage to Idris Elba, and extrapoloating some characteristics from BBC Luther. A lovely, engaging, sexy, petey-pureheart klnd of guy. :-) Fiery, though.
Hmmm.... Idris Elba would make a magnificent Victor, IMHO....

He is oh, so yummy. And completely different from John. I like the contrast-- and I'd like to break the Jerk!Victor! Trope by actually making him a good match for Sherlock, and every bot as much of a hero...
But that's the beauty of a canon character like Victor-- we have the freedom to actually create a character that's not strictly an OC.

That would be a nice fanfiction, surely!

RavenMorganLeigh · July 29, 2015 7:11 pm

nakahara wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
If he became a great guy, and a great match for Sherlock, I would hate him even more.

Pat, pat, pat... there, there Vhanja... there, there.... :-)

RavenMorganLeigh · July 29, 2015 7:17 pm

nakahara wrote:
RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
nakahara wrote:

Hmmm.... Idris Elba would make a magnificent Victor, IMHO....

He is oh, so yummy. And completely different from John. I like the contrast-- and I'd like to break the Jerk!Victor! Trope by actually making him a good match for Sherlock, and every bot as much of a hero...
But that's the beauty of a canon character like Victor-- we have the freedom to actually create a character that's not strictly an OC.
That would be a nice fanfiction, surely!

Great! 'cos, I'm already writing it!

Dorothy83 · July 29, 2015 11:10 pm

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
nakahara wrote:
RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
So, of course-- I'm making *my* Victor a homage to Idris Elba, and extrapoloating some characteristics from BBC Luther. A lovely, engaging, sexy, petey-pureheart klnd of guy. :-) Fiery, though.
Hmmm.... Idris Elba would make a magnificent Victor, IMHO....

He is oh, so yummy. And completely different from John. I like the contrast-- and I'd like to break the Jerk!Victor! Trope by actually making him a good match for Sherlock, and every bot as much of a hero...
But that's the beauty of a canon character like Victor-- we have the freedom to actually create a character that's not strictly an OC.

Gosh, Raven, I think you're reading my mind. I also have Idris Elba as my ideal Victor. And I also think that Sherlock does deserve someone who puts him first, someone to properly look after him and make him feel important at this stage where he had to step aside and basically forget himself in order to look after John and his happiness.

Of course that wouldn't mean that John is completely out of the picture... In fact I think John would definitely want to pee on his territory ;)

I am definitely plotting a fic right now!

RavenMorganLeigh · July 29, 2015 11:30 pm

Dorothy83 wrote:
RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
nakahara wrote:
Hmmm.... Idris Elba would make a magnificent Victor, IMHO....

He is oh, so yummy. And completely different from John. I like the contrast-- and I'd like to break the Jerk!Victor! Trope by actually making him a good match for Sherlock, and every bot as much of a hero...
But that's the beauty of a canon character like Victor-- we have the freedom to actually create a character that's not strictly an OC.
Gosh, Raven, I think you're reading my mind. I also have Idris Elba as my ideal Victor. And I also think that Sherlock does deserve someone who puts him first, someone to properly look after him and make him feel important at this stage where he had to step aside and basically forget himself in order to look after John and his happiness. 8

Of course that wouldn't mean that John is completely out of the picture... In fact I think John would definitely want to pee on his territory ;)
B
I am definitely plotting a fic right now!

I love a good Plot!!

Here's my thing-- in a lot of fic coming out right now, there's an expectation that John will stay with Mary until Death do They Part-- as long as 10--20 years!!! And I'm like, hey! That's not fair to Sherlock, to just expect him to never connect with anyone else other than John! John gets to have ( and get lethally bored with) the life he willfully chose to have with Mary, the woman whom he forgave for very nearly killing Sherlock, John's best friend.

Why shouldn't Sherlock have someone who truly loves him????

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (July 29, 2015 11:31 pm)

Dorothy83 · July 30, 2015 9:42 am

I think the reason a lot of people (including me) find it hard to imagine Sherlock giving himself over completely to someone other than John is that the kind of love Sherlock has shown for John is so unconditional and encompassing that it can't just be pushed aside or forgotten. John is his pressure point, the most important person for him, so it's going to be hard for him to move on completely. I think Sherlock would go as far as accepting attention and care, even love, from someone else - someone like Victor, whom he knows already and who he doesn't need to learn to trust and appreciate from scratch - but it will be unlikely for this person to take John's place.

Sherlock Holmes · July 31, 2015 8:59 am

Dorothy83 wrote:
I think the reason a lot of people (including me) find it hard to imagine Sherlock giving himself over completely to someone other than John is that the kind of love Sherlock has shown for John is so unconditional and encompassing that it can't just be pushed aside or forgotten. John is his pressure point, the most important person for him, so it's going to be hard for him to move on completely. I think Sherlock would go as far as accepting attention and care, even love, from someone else - someone like Victor, whom he knows already and who he doesn't need to learn to trust and appreciate from scratch - but it will be unlikely for this person to take John's place.

^^^this
I completely agree, and however much I love Victor as a character, I wouldn't want to see him take John's place. That would just make me dislike him as I dislike Mary for taking Sherlock's place (or trying to). The point is though, I really don't see John and Mary lasting much beyond the first couple of episodes of Series 4, so Sherlock will get his John back soon enough. There isn't any need for another character to come along and "love" him.

Sherlock Holmes · July 31, 2015 9:00 am

The dynamic always has been and always will be, Holmes and Watson. Not Holmes and Trevor. (Sorry Vic!)

SolarSystem · July 31, 2015 10:10 am

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Dorothy83 wrote:
I think the reason a lot of people (including me) find it hard to imagine Sherlock giving himself over completely to someone other than John is that the kind of love Sherlock has shown for John is so unconditional and encompassing that it can't just be pushed aside or forgotten. John is his pressure point, the most important person for him, so it's going to be hard for him to move on completely. I think Sherlock would go as far as accepting attention and care, even love, from someone else - someone like Victor, whom he knows already and who he doesn't need to learn to trust and appreciate from scratch - but it will be unlikely for this person to take John's place.
^^^this
I completely agree, and however much I love Victor as a character, I wouldn't want to see him take John's place. That would just make me dislike him as I dislike Mary for taking Sherlock's place (or trying to). The point is though, I really don't see John and Mary lasting much beyond the first couple of episodes of Series 4

So sorry, but this just made me laugh. There will only be a couple of episodes...!

Dorothy83 · July 31, 2015 11:55 am

The question is here through, is not if Victor will take John's place (which he won't) but how do you imagine him coming into Sherlock's life and shaking things a bit ;)

Sherlock Holmes · July 31, 2015 7:53 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Dorothy83 wrote:
I think the reason a lot of people (including me) find it hard to imagine Sherlock giving himself over completely to someone other than John is that the kind of love Sherlock has shown for John is so unconditional and encompassing that it can't just be pushed aside or forgotten. John is his pressure point, the most important person for him, so it's going to be hard for him to move on completely. I think Sherlock would go as far as accepting attention and care, even love, from someone else - someone like Victor, whom he knows already and who he doesn't need to learn to trust and appreciate from scratch - but it will be unlikely for this person to take John's place.
^^^this
I completely agree, and however much I love Victor as a character, I wouldn't want to see him take John's place. That would just make me dislike him as I dislike Mary for taking Sherlock's place (or trying to). The point is though, I really don't see John and Mary lasting much beyond the first couple of episodes of Series 4

So sorry, but this just made me laugh. There will only be a couple of episodes...!

Well, there'll be three! A couple always means two to me.

Sherlock Holmes · July 31, 2015 7:53 pm

Dorothy83 wrote:
The question is here through, is not if Victor will take John's place (which he won't) but how do you imagine him coming into Sherlock's life and shaking things a bit ;)

I'd be happy to see that.

My favourite actor to play Victor is Rupert Grint, although he'd be to young to play alongside Sherlock now. In his Uni days though, that's how I imagine him.

Last edited by Sherlock Holmes (July 31, 2015 7:54 pm)

Lilythiell · July 31, 2015 8:36 pm

nakahara wrote:
Sherlock returns home one evening and he suddenly sees this impecably dressed, elegant Etonian on his treshhold, the tall, red-haired, sophisticated man with delicate features and thin-rimmed glasses adorning his face. He recognises Victor, his old acquaintance, at once. Victor worked overseas in diplomatic circles, but now he´s came back and his first thought was to see Sherlock, with whom he was at very friendly terms in their student times.

Sherlock invites him in and while they chat a bit, Sherlock feels his insides melt. Victor does not care for crap TV or mediocre newspapers, quite the opposite, he speaks with refinement about classical music, books, about Sherlock´s hobby of forensics and chemistry and he understands Sherlock´s remarks well, answering them with high level of intelligence and insight. Sherlock has by now completelly forgotten how it is to make a conversation with your intellectual equal, without that intellectual equal trying either to kill you or belittle you. The world gradually slips away from him and Victor and his words move sharply into focus. He slowly seizes Victor by the hand and squeezes it.

Victor doesn´t try to free his hand out of captivity, he just smiles lightly. Taking it as an encouragement, Sherlock leans forward and possesively kisses him on the lips.

"Will you remain here tonight?" he asks.
"I wouldn´t mind at all." replies Victor easily and comfortably reclines in John´s former chair.

A choked up sound and gasp resonates from the door. Sherlock turns his head towards it and sees John, pale and bug-eyed, standing by the door, looking slightly dishevelled. He excuses himself to Victor, stands up and comes nearer to the doctor.

"John! Long time no see - what brings you here so suddenly?"

John swallows, still wide-eyed and gasping, but he answers truthfully: "Mary kicked me out... turns out I am not even the father of the baby... I... I thought that maybe you could take me back, Sherlock... here to our former flat at Baker Street.... so we can continue like before, you know...."

Sherlock raises his eyebrows a bit, but otherwise he looks at John quite dispassionally.

"Sorry, John." he replies finally. "But you had already chosen, didn´t you?"

Gently, but firmly, he pushes his former flatmate out to the hallway, closes the door softly and returns to his chair with strange grace in his steps. Then he smiles at Victor: "Now, where were we?"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo

My heart's in pieces, now. Well, even more so would be more accurate. Still.

I don't care much for the character -and to be honest, I haven't really noticed him in ACD Canon...Although I have read quite a number of fics in which he was a bad, former acquaintance of Sherlock's. To put it mildly.
I don't think they'd need to have things shaken up this series, what with John and Mary's arc.
Why not in series 5 (yes, there will be one), though?

RavenMorganLeigh · July 31, 2015 10:45 pm

The problem with Victor, as I see it, is that most of what we see of him in fanfic is actually Fanon!Victor, and that usually seems to mean that he's really not much more than a plot device, usually included for the purpose of showing Jealous!John, or Victim/Junkie!Sherlock.

But he's not like that in Canon at all. It's never been mentioned that he was mean, abusive, etc.

As far as maintaining the Johnlock Ship, I'm of two minds about that: on one hand, I truly prefer John and Sherlock, back at 221B, solving cases! On the other hand, since John chose Mary to spend his life with, along with the problematic baby-- I just think Sherlock deserves a lover of his own. The idea that he can't possibly be happy with anyone other than John Watson is romantic, but not really healthy--and rather sad and possibly a little cruel. I just think Sherlock has done enough for John, he shouldn't be required to suffer forever.. or until John finally values Sherlock as a Life Partner...

Sherlock Holmes · July 31, 2015 10:51 pm

My Victor is fun and cool. Not abusive at all.

RavenMorganLeigh · July 31, 2015 11:22 pm

Dorothy83 wrote:
I think the reason a lot of people (including me) find it hard to imagine Sherlock giving himself over completely to someone other than John is that the kind of love Sherlock has shown for John is so unconditional and encompassing that it can't just be pushed aside or forgotten. John is his pressure point, the most important person for him, so it's going to be hard for him to move on completely. I think Sherlock would go as far as accepting attention and care, even love, from someone else - someone like Victor, whom he knows already and who he doesn't need to learn to trust and appreciate from scratch - but it will be unlikely for this person to take John's place.

The thing is-- Sherlock is NOT John's pressure point. Mary is.

If John left Mary, when does Sherlock mean as much to John as John does to Sherlock? Sounds like an unequal relationship-- rather one-sided. And I don't think Victor-- or anyone else would ever be able tpo take John's place. And honestly, they shouldn't even try. But John could never take Victor's place=-- or anyone else's place in Sherlock's life, either. Because these are different people. :-) So, Victor would have Victor's place in Sherlock's life, not John's.

RavenMorganLeigh · July 31, 2015 11:23 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
My Victor is fun and cool. Not abusive at all.

LIKE!!!!

Lilythiell · August 1, 2015 2:03 am

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
The problem with Victor, as I see it, is that most of what we see of him in fanfic is actually Fanon!Victor, and that usually seems to mean that he's really not much more than a plot device, usually included for the purpose of showing Jealous!John, or Victim/Junkie!Sherlock.
But he's not like that in Canon at all. It's never been mentioned that he was mean, abusive, etc.

Yes, I gathered it was Fanon!Victor we're familiar with...which leaves me with the following question : how is he in the Canon? Please, please, please enlighten me? Or just direct me to the story(ies?) in which he appears?
I hate to be so clueless.
But we can trust Moftiss that if they chose to include him in the show, it will be more than worth it, and that everyone will suffer -yet again. But if nobody did, it wouldn't be half as fun, now, would it?

-Lily

RavenMorganLeigh · August 1, 2015 2:22 am

Here ya go: "You never heard me talk of Victor Trevor?" he asked. "He was the only friend I made during the two years I was at college. I was never a very sociable fellow, Watson, always rather fond of moping in my rooms and working out my own little methods of thought, so that I never mixed much with the men of my year. Bar fencing and boxing I had few athletic tastes, and then my line of study was quite distinct from that of the other fellows, so that we had no points of contact at all. Trevor was the only man I knew, and that only through the accident of his bull terrier freezing on to my ankle one morning as I went down to chapel.

"It was a prosaic way of forming a friendship, but it was effective. I was laid by the heels for ten days, but Trevor used to come in to inquire after me. At first it was only a minute's chat, but soon his visits lengthened, and before the end of the term we were close friends. He was a hearty, full-blooded fellow, full of spirits and energy, the very opposite to me in most respects, but we had some subjects in common, and it was a bond of union when I found that he was as friendless as I. Finally, he invited me down to his father's place at Donnithorpe, in Norfolk, and I accepted his hospitality for a month of the long vacation.

http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/GlorScot.shtml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_the_Gloria_Scott

Lilythiell · August 1, 2015 2:53 am

Thank you, Raven!
Indeed, Victor is not described as a bad person in any way.
I can very well understand the desire of the fandom to expand on his friendship with Holmes -we've only a few details here and there, but nothing of import, I think. Why make it into something dark, though? If there were some dark history behind that friendship, why mention it at all?

Last edited by Lilythiell (August 1, 2015 3:14 am)