If you're going to see a production you're unsure of, would you not do your research?
Anyhow...
While I was awake for hours last night(as usual), after putting the world to rights(no change there), I started musing...
I was hoping Benedict may have been able to enjoy a quiet family(post Hamlet)  day yesterday.
But would he have been at the hairdressers, do you think?!

I see what you mean, Phantom (and I hope you're feeling better!).  Really surprising for an English teacher!   It's funny, I expect people who study English (as a degree) to be literature-obsessed, but I think it's not always the case - sometimes people choose it because they were good at it at school, and it's the same with other degrees.

I was disappointed to find out (through my son) the literature and Shakespeare isn't taught in the same way in schools now anyway.   They are given excerpts to read, not the whole thing.   My son was lucky in that he did have one very enthusiastic teacher who took him to see Shakespeare performed.  But for most of the pupils, it's just a case of reading selected pieces.  

I think you can go and see a Shakespeare play without any further knowledge and get the jist of it - the actors can convey so much even when the language is unfamiliar, and I agree that this was a particularly accessible production.   But I think it's harder to fully "understand".  It's not just the language that's different but the writing style, the time ... for instance, in a modern story I'd expect the "metaphysical" aspects to be resolved (was it a real ghost, in which case we're moving into a different genre, or not?  And as it's the ghost which sets Hamlet on his course, it's quite important!), but the Elizabethans seem to have been much more relaxed about that.  It feels as if there are still questions at the end - to what extent was mad and to what extent acting, did he love Ophelia, etc. and again, I think that seems to be fine in Shakespeare, but a somebody new to him could go away thinking that they just didn't understand it all. 

I've read the play, but I still felt watching that it was going to fast sometimes, and I wanted to stop and think about the words!   There is so much to take in.  (And so much wordplay). 

Perhaps so... but it just annoys me how she gives up. It's the giving up part that annoys me.

About a month before I became Sherlocked she was reading a newspaper in my mother's living room and they were in the middle of showing 'our' tHoB on TV. (I had asked her if it was okay that I turned on the TV first). She looked up from the newspaper a few minutes in and asked me
"Is that Sherlock Holmes?" I told her yes... and she asked me if I could change the channel because Sherlock Holmes was the most boring thing ever.

Turns out she never actually read or watched it... she just assumed it was boring.

Sometimes I wonder if I was adopted. I have a strong belief in trying something before I decide if I don't like it.

A few pages back in this thread (about page 14, I believe) there was a discussion about stage acting vs. film acting.  This recent article relates to that discussion so I hope some here will find it interesting.

I had written out a long thoughtful and detailed commentary about it... twice, and have lost it both times , so I will just simply post the link this time and see where that leads...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zp2n39q

By the Way - Benedict is mentioned in it.

-Val

Last edited by Ah-chie (November 3, 2015 3:51 pm)

Schmiezi wrote:

    Besides, some of us English teachers are more interested in linguistics than literature and that is perfectly fine. Teaching German pupils English is barely about reading books but all about grammar etc., at least until 10th grade.

You teach English to your German students?  God bless you, my dear; you must have the patience of a saint. My husband and I are both "word" people, so we love grammar and spelling and puns and twists of phrase, shall we say.  Not a week goes by that we don't look at each other and wonder, "How does anyone EVER learn to speak English?"  I suppose all languages are like that, but English is the only one I know for sure about.
 

I can only agree: Shakespeare is meant to be seen, not read...well, the plays at least!

My daughter is in the Hight School and they are reading Shakespeare just now on their English Lessons (De La Vega on Spanish course and Montaigne on French one). She is loving it, we haven't been talking about anything else for a month now. She has been completely spellbinded by Macbeth and learn tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow by heart and now she is raving about the Tempest. I suspect much of the credit goes to the teacher. 

Well as they say - third time lucky, so I will try one last time to post my thoughts on the BBC article I posted about earlier.  Maybe this time I will get to the end before it disappears into the ether.

I would like to draw a few quotes out of the piece to highlight the thoughts contained and perhaps add to the discussion about theatre acting vs. film acting.

"As stars of both stage and screen know all too well, they are never more exposed than when performing on stage. The power of theatre lies in its capacity to connect the audience directly with the onstage actors through a single shared experience."

It is this power that draws highly skilled actors to the stage, I think so that they can truly exercise their acting muscles.  They just can't get the same experience when acting in films.  Here's another quote from a site that specialises in advice to actors (of all persuasions) -

"In theater, when the lights go up, and the audience sits before you, it becomes just you and them. It is the actors medium. The audience experiences you, your scene partners, and the set. There are no second takes. You can’t stop and start over. You are being watched every second, live and up-close. The audience stays with you and your performance based on how effective your instrument works. A great performance by an actor will often forgive bad writing, distract from weak sets, and disregard poor directing. What audiences remember most are the actors’ moments, the truth of their characters. They are in relationship to you, believing (or disbelieving) what you say and do. They follow you, and it’s crucial that they believe your every moment on stage. You’re taking them on a journey, and they will have the faith to go along if you grab them and hold them. The play’s success rests on the actor’s shoulders. On YOUR shoulders."
-Fran Montano, Acting Coach

And that is a fundamental truth that I truly believe in - theatre is an actor's medium.  Film is a director's medium. 

"Great actors put aside their own personalities, and find humanity in even the darkest of characters. It is this portrayal of human emotion which is key to performing Shakespeare’s plays in a way that allows audiences to understand the complex language. "

There is nothing false or stagy when a great actor presents a Shakespearean performance that allows the patrons of the theatre to access the complexities of the language of Hamlet (like I believe Cumberbatch did so convincingly in Hamlet).  If someone is a native speaker of the English language (so I am excluding those who might have translation problems) and tells me they don't get what is being said in Hamlet, my suggestion to them is to go to more Shakespearean plays and read more classical literature. I'm not saying they have to love Shakespeare (or even like it) but at least they should have an understanding of it and what he was trying to say in his plays.

I never had a difficult time watching and understanding Shakespeare even when I was a teen.  But then, I was raised on thinking and writing and listening to full sentences, not 140 characters tweets. And I think it behooves any educated person to at least have some working knowledge of Shakespearean plays, just like anyone who considers themselves educated to have some experience with Ibsen, Chekhov,  Molière, or Goethe (etc.) - not just those who hold a birthright to those great pieces of literature.  Expansion of knowledge is a goal worth working towards both in and out of the years of formal schooling and it isn't done by closing yourself off from one of the greatest playwrights of the ages.  Actors like Benedict doing plays like Hamlet allow almost anyone with a thurst for understanding the human condition a chance to experience Shakespeare's brilliance at observing it.  What a shame if someone throws that opportunity away.

"Costume and make-up aside, theatre – unlike film – cannot rely on special effects or digital manipulation to transform an actor.In the theatre actors must rely on their own ability to transform themselves, so the audience sees the character rather than Maxine Peake or Simon Callow."

That point about superior skilled actors being able to transform on stage while the play is ongoing is also about development of character (as in Hamlet) and is also what makes stage acting so intriguing to me.  The immediacy of that fluid motion of development, right before your eyes, in real time, is what holds such fascination.  There are no second takes once the play has begun.  No editing of all the different shots.  Just pure ability to show us how this character evolves throughout the performance.  That's why the language is so important.  It is the vehicle for the transformation in Shakespeare... words, words, wooooords!  You have to engage your mind fully to really get the ideas behind those words - it takes effort and it is worth it!  But a quality actor can bring you along more smoothly on the journey and be your guide.

And finally -
"...self-confidence is often what attracts audiences to an actor.Stage presence, on the other hand, can often be enhanced by an actor’s off stage persona. As well as Olivier, acting giants Peter O’Toole and Richard Burton drew audiences by their sheer strength of character. Today Benedict Cumberbatch is doing the same."

Top-notch actors all have an aura of stage presence that can't be beat.  And it comes to them as part of who they are in real life as well.  They command the attention and use it to bring on the understanding of the playwright's ideas.  When I see such a performance like Cumberbatch in Hamlet or Plummer in The Tempest, my heart soars!  I feel like crying and laughing at the same time.  It's remarkable - a laying bare of emotions and making it more clear to us what it is to be human.

Whew!  Seems like I made it to the end without anything vanishing!  Will wonders never cease.

-Val 

I couldn't agree more, tonnaree.

Aw...