BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mycroft Holmes

besleybean · January 6, 2016 5:33 pm

Though I would have hoped he would welcome his little brother back form the brink!

Schmiezi · January 7, 2016 5:23 am

Mothonthemantel wrote:
Also the tiny vision of Sherlock OD in the drug den is right the second before the hack moment, and that is definitely hallucinated.
I like my sons ( he is 14 ) version , all the scenes on the plane are dream because Mycroft is too much of a lazy arse to climb on the plane just to walk Sherlock off.

I like the way your son thinks.

Liberty · January 7, 2016 7:45 am

I thought the OD scene (with Sherlock and Mycroft) looked like a flashback rather than a hallucination.

What's surreal about Mary hacking into MI5 is that the case needed such a high level of security - the stuff that Sherlock sees in his mind palace implies that the information was from newspaper reports, and doesn't suggest anything that would need high security. Maybe Victorian Mycroft is a suggestion that the women had a sympathiser in government who suppressed the information about the secret organisation, etc. Although I suspect the whole thing is just story telling. We know Mary is more than "just" an assassin.

Last edited by Liberty (January 7, 2016 7:50 am)

dioscureantwins · January 7, 2016 9:44 am

Imho the key to understanding the episode is accepting that none of the scenes on the plane are real except for the last one. Notice that is the only scene where Mary isn't besting Mycroft or working for him and Mycroft is quietly accepting of Sherlock's need for the drugs to assess his MP.

SusiGo · January 7, 2016 9:49 am

I like that interpretation and find it convincing, especially with regard to Mary's and Mycroft's behaviour in the first plane scene. Though it would mean that we actually have no idea what scrap of paper Mycroft is picking up and putting it in his notebook, right?

dioscureantwins · January 7, 2016 9:59 am

Not necessarily so I think. The lists could have been agreed upon a long time ago and have become so ingrained they even niggle their way into the MP.

nakahara · January 18, 2016 1:01 pm

Dark thoughts on Mycroft:

http://plaidadder.tumblr.com/post/137308072749/sherlocks-dreamwork-m

nakahara · January 18, 2016 1:58 pm

What bothers me about BBC Mycroft is that he often gloats over Sherlock as if he himself never made any mistakes or bad decision in his life.

Makes him a bit inhuman, IMHO.

besleybean · January 18, 2016 5:04 pm

The one that got me really cross was Irene: how the heck was Sherlock supposed to know she was working for Moriarty?
Mycroft didn't know either!

nakahara · January 18, 2016 8:06 pm

besleybean wrote:
The one that got me really cross was Irene: how the heck was Sherlock supposed to know she was working for Moriarty?
Mycroft didn't know either!

Yes, he made the same mistake as Sherlock (or deliberately gave him incomplete information, if he was by any chance aware of Adler-Moriarty connection) and yet he acted as if Sherlock was the only one who misjudged things here....

Little Weed · January 18, 2016 9:26 pm

Oh Mycroft thinks he so in control of his emotions but he isn't really...he's perpetually annoyed at Sherlock... mostly I think for Sherlock not being mature as a kid... and to be fair in this instance Sherlock knew exactly what he was doing, becuase he always makes it look like he has a losing hand and then... lo and behold Royal Flush. The look of devastation on Irene's face is really clear in that scene...

besleybean · January 18, 2016 9:28 pm

Yep, but she wins in the end!

nakahara · January 18, 2016 9:31 pm

besleybean wrote:
Yep, but she wins in the end!

Really?

besleybean · January 18, 2016 9:33 pm

Certainly the view of the team.
I agree, she makes him rescue her.

Mothonthemantel · January 19, 2016 3:24 pm

Agree Nakahara . Dark thoughts on Mycroft indeed. Not only does he seem to miss Adlers connection to Moriarty but he must of had some clue about Moriarty during TGG and the missile plans thing . It also is made to look like Mycroft sold out Sherlocks secrets to Moriarty in TRF . And occasionally it's Sherlock that seems to pull Mycroft out of the crap , cracking Irenes phone and dealing with Moriarty and his network etc etc

The tarmac scene really bothers me that when Sherlock asks for a moment with John and Mycroft rolls his eyes ,as if to say, oh get the plane and go die on this mission already! So heartless! It's also hinted he did something horrible to the other one.
Then there's Mary .He missed her , he didn't care , he hired an assassin to idk fool John and spy info back to him and then she shot his brother. No scenarios are good.

I like to think Mycrofts s really a good guy and Sherlocks claims that they planned things together are true , and that Mycroft knew on the tarmac Sherlock would be returning because I really love Mycroft as a character and the conversations and dynamic between the brothers is one of the best things .

Perhaps somehow Mycroft is doing everything for Sherlocks benefit.I hope and think so.
But dark thoughts and suspicions indeed.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (January 19, 2016 3:25 pm)

nakahara · January 20, 2016 3:11 pm

Mothonthemantel wrote:
The tarmac scene really bothers me that when Sherlock asks for a moment with John and Mycroft rolls his eyes ,as if to say, oh get the plane and go die on this mission already! So heartless! It's also hinted he did something horrible to the other one.
Then there's Mary .He missed her , he didn't care , he hired an assassin to idk fool John and spy info back to him and then she shot his brother. No scenarios are good.

I agree on both points. The authors were trying to pass Mycroft as the caring guy in TAB, but these things still grate and are not very compatible with this caring image.
If Sherlock was less torn by the emotions in TAB and more his old self from S1 or 2, he might have called it on him (and on John too):

JOHN: You are taking all this? Sherlock, you might die!
SHERLOCK: So what? What will you do about it?
JOHN: I won´t ever allow you to come near any such deadly substance again!
SHERLOCK: Does that mean you´ll also remove Mary from my presence? She shot me, you know?
JOHN: Errr....
SHERLOCK: Just as I thought. Shut up, John.
MYCROFT: Sherlock, stop it. I will always be there for you, like I was there for you in the past...
SHERLOCK: Like you were there for me when Mary shot me?
MYCROFT: Uhm, no, I was too busy then to care about such trifles... but I will be there for you from now on...
SHERLOCK: Does that mean you´ll finally punish Mary for shooting me?
MYCROFT: Errr....
SHERLOCK: Precisely. Piss off, Mycroft.

besleybean · January 20, 2016 5:44 pm

But they didn't give us that scene.
I have no doubt that Mycroft deeply cares about his brother and really hopes John does take care of him.

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2016 11:20 pm

nakahara wrote:
Mothonthemantel wrote:
The tarmac scene really bothers me that when Sherlock asks for a moment with John and Mycroft rolls his eyes ,as if to say, oh get the plane and go die on this mission already! So heartless! It's also hinted he did something horrible to the other one.
Then there's Mary .He missed her , he didn't care , he hired an assassin to idk fool John and spy info back to him and then she shot his brother. No scenarios are good.
I agree on both points. The authors were trying to pass Mycroft as the caring guy in TAB, but these things still grate and are not very compatible with this caring image.
If Sherlock was less torn by the emotions in TAB and more his old self from S1 or 2, he might have called it on him (and on John too):

JOHN: You are taking all this? Sherlock, you might die!
SHERLOCK: So what? What will you do about it?
JOHN: I won´t ever allow you to come near any such deadly substance again!
SHERLOCK: Does that mean you´ll also remove Mary from my presence? She shot me, you know?
JOHN: Errr....
SHERLOCK: Just as I thought. Shut up, John.
MYCROFT: Sherlock, stop it. I will always be there for you, like I was there for you in the past...
SHERLOCK: Like you were there for me when Mary shot me?
MYCROFT: Uhm, no, I was too busy then to care about such trifles... but I will be there for you from now on...
SHERLOCK: Does that mean you´ll finally punish Mary for shooting me?
MYCROFT: Errr....
SHERLOCK: Precisely. Piss off, Mycroft.

So true . Brilliant interpretation.
Really hoping and thinking that those scenes are just examples of Sherlocks low self worth in the mp.Everyone's so very ooc .

besleybean · January 21, 2016 6:31 am

I wonder if they are just accurately showing a man who is just coming out of an OD induced mind palace.
But I think all of the concern and care is real.

kgreen20 · January 21, 2016 8:21 pm

I believe so, too.

And it appears that only the final scene in modern-day London is the one that is real. The earlier scenes back in modern-day London, as well as the final scene in Victorian London, all appear to be part of Sherlock's mind palace.

Last edited by kgreen20 (January 21, 2016 8:22 pm)