BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Things that only make sense if Johnlock is subtext

Vhanja · June 3, 2016 5:17 pm

Guess I'm just a big, old softie.

besleybean · June 3, 2016 5:17 pm

Similarly 'Always you' for means that it's always John who saves Sherlock's skin.

Liberty · June 3, 2016 5:26 pm

Just adding (and I don't know if this leans more towards or away from Johnlock) that I don't Sherlock did fall for Irene faking her death. I think he colluded in it. I've tried and tried, but I find it really difficult to see it any other way. She had told him that being parted from her phone would mean her death. She was alive when she sent the text, yet Sherlock does nothing to try to stop her death. Instead he phones Mycroft to tell him to expect a body. He makes sure that he's the one who identifies the body, positively. We know later that the body wasn't Irene's and also know that Sherlock had a really good look at Irene's body - he wouldn't have got it wrong. Either he was covering up for her or ... it's a slight plot hole, I suppose, or a flaw in the writing.

Collusion makes sense to me. Irene sends him a message that she knows he'll understand but other people won't. Sherlock sets up Mycroft to expect the body that Irene plants (and perhaps it gives him the idea for TRF). Sherlock deliberately misidentifies the body to allow Irene to escape, by letting Mycroft and everybody believe she's dead. He does something similar at the end of the episode.

I'm not sure how exactly that changes things, but it maybe does a little. Sherlock already believes or at least hopes that Irene is alive, for instance, and gets caught out spying on her (i.e. he probably followed John knowing he was going to see Irene - he wouldn't have bothered if he thought it was Mycroft).

GimmeCat · June 3, 2016 5:37 pm

Interesting idea. But why would Irene willingly send her phone to Sherlock? Then petition John immediately after to get it back again?

Liberty · June 3, 2016 5:54 pm

I assume she sends it to him so that he will set it up for her to disappear (by misidentifying the body). Sherlock knows enough to "deduce" that that's what she's doing. His positive identification convinces Mycroft (and presumably the CIA, etc.). Meanwhile, she is very good at sussing people out, and knows that he'll hang on to the phone, trying to puzzle it out. I think there's quite a gap before she tries to get it back again? But of course, she's not just trying to get it back - she needs Sherlock to decipher the email for her.

besleybean · June 3, 2016 6:27 pm

So what's with all the misty eyed gooey looks on his trip back from warehouse to 221B?

Liberty · June 3, 2016 6:34 pm

I don't know, and I think it's one of the things that's open to interpretation. It's filmed in quite an odd way. I don't think he can be completely surprised that she's alive when he tried to help her escape. One theory I've dabbled with is that (considering he makes an effort to not let her know that he's interested, or let her know he's not interested depending on how you see it) he's pretty put out at being caught out spying on her. After all, showing their true selves seems to mean losing the game. But then I wonder why he didn't just put his phone on silent when he could hear her saying she was going to text him.

besleybean · June 3, 2016 6:36 pm

I think he at least wanted John to know he was there...he does always follow him!

Vhanja · June 3, 2016 6:37 pm

I think the main reaction in that shot is shock. A similar shot with a similar effect is used in TAB when Sherlock also experiences great shock.

But I agree that the reason for why he is shocked is open to interpretation. I have always felt that it had mostly to do with Irene being alive, though. If he had been a part of the scheme of her being dead, I imagine he would've said so in his "speech" towards the end.

besleybean · June 3, 2016 6:39 pm

Yep, I don't think he knew she was alive...again, why so sad in his bedroom at the flat when he realises she's dead?

tonnaree · June 3, 2016 7:17 pm

besleybean wrote:
So what's with all the misty eyed gooey looks on his trip back from warehouse to 221B?

It could very easily be a response to the deep emotions he heard from John. John's defense of him and anger at Irene for playing with his emotions. And also quite possibly surprise and confusion at Irene's "deduction" that John loves Sherlock.

Liberty · June 3, 2016 7:17 pm

But there's no other explanation for him pretending the body is hers. There's the outside chance that the brilliant detective could just get it wrong, but I think that would be too risky for Irene - if he had got it right, she wouldn't have been safe and the fake death would have been pointless. She has to have known that he would collude with her. She also has to have known that he wouldn't just give the phone to Mycroft. I think she susses him out pretty well.

He could be sad because he thinks he won't see her again, even if she's alive ... but even then it's not clear how sad he is. I think he's infatuated and a little obsessed, but not "in love". He has met her twice and once was when he was drugged. John doesn't have a clue what Sherlock's actually feeling and whether he's grieving or just his normal self.

Last edited by Liberty (June 3, 2016 7:18 pm)

nakahara · June 3, 2016 7:19 pm

The most observant man in the world and he doesn´t recognise the planted body? After he saw Irene naked?Highly unlikely, IMHO.

I think he was shocked not after seeing Irene alive, but after witnessing her dialogue with John. "We are not a couple..." - "Yes you are" speech...

GimmeCat · June 3, 2016 7:21 pm

besleybean wrote:
Yep, I don't think he knew she was alive...again, why so sad in his bedroom at the flat when he realises she's dead?

I don't think he looked that sad. We've seen by that point that he does care about people losing their lives, especially if that's the result of his failure to solve a case. So he seemed despondent about it, a bit, but I think he was more disappointed in himself.

After that scene, other characters continually allude to him "being sad", but the one time John asks him directly about his feelings on the matter, Sherlock says he's "thinking". And when further pressed, he stops playing his violin, whips around and points at the laptop- "the counter on your blog is still stuck at 1895!" (Edit: typo, got the number wrong, whoops )

Last edited by GimmeCat (June 3, 2016 7:26 pm)

besleybean · June 3, 2016 7:25 pm

Yes I told myself all of those things, too.
But in interview, Benedict and Steven have both said there was some attraction there.

Liberty · June 3, 2016 7:37 pm

Oh, I think there was attraction there - maybe not attraction the way us lesser mortals experience it, but definitely something! I think he's not so sad because he knows she's not dead. I think he deliberately misidentifies the body to help her. (Possibly because of attraction, possibly because he's drawn to "the game", and possibly because he feels a bit guilty for having tried to take her phone in the first place - something that would have killed her. Possibly a bit of all three).

The "couple" speech is odd, but it clearly doesn't mean a couple in the sense of people in sexual relationship - we know that they're not. If it was just that John wanted to get together with Sherlock, then the truth would now be out there, and if Johnlock existed, Sherlock would now know John's intentions towards him. But nothing comes of it, so it's not that either.

GimmeCat · June 3, 2016 7:39 pm

Nothing comes of it because they're interrupted immediately afterwards by American CIA agents. Later that night, Sherlock doesn't want to talk about it, but John seems ready to (glass of liquid courage in hand).

besleybean · June 3, 2016 7:41 pm

Sherlock doesn't like talking about emotions.
He doesn't like the fact that John is onto him from liking Irene- it is weakness.

Liberty · June 3, 2016 7:45 pm

Oh, I don't mean just at the point, I mean ever! Not even in TAB.

besleybean · June 3, 2016 7:47 pm

Well, quite.