As I see it, he hasn't forgiven Mary. The scene at Sherlock's parents wasn't for me the scene to show that John had forgiven Mary. It was a scene showing that John had made the decision to start forgiving Mary.

To me, it's clear when he says that he is still "basically pissed off with you". To me, that doesn't sound like forgivness. The entire scene plays out to me as John telling Mary he has decided to give their relationship a go, and has decided to start the process of forgiving. That is why he looks more determined than happy, and why he is still angry with her.

Last edited by Vhanja (August 16, 2015 12:06 am)

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

Actually, John's forgiveness of Mary bothers me more... I just can't understand how he could (a) believe the "surgery explanation, and (b) forgive someone who lied to him about who she was from the beginning of their relationship, then shot Sherlock to keep John from finding out the truth, when he's barely forgiven Sherlock for faking his death, even though it saved his life. On John's blog, he says that Sherlock did tell him about the snipers, and John said he didn't know if he'd ever fully trust Sherlock again, even though he understood why Sherlock had done it. But he forgave Mary. Uuuurrrrrgggghhhhh.

That actually does put a crimp in my johnlock.

And once again, makes perfect sense if John is lying.  
 

Yes, I agree. Hard pill to swallow for me and one that to me is not completely justified by the narrative. Except, of course, things are not what they seem to be and there is something more going on in the background (with Mycroft or the flash drive or whatever).

kornmuhme wrote:

tonnaree wrote:

kornmuhme wrote:

But what I find much more irritating and even annoying is the fact that Sherlock easily forgives her. He even never ever criticizes her - and she almost killed him! So I'm not really angry at Mary, but at Sherlock. I just can't understand his "easy going" with Mary and her deed!

It all makes sense if Sherlock is lying.  

 
Do you think he is?

I keep thinking that Sherlock is lying- for John's sake. OW. 

SusiGo wrote:

So do I. He is in pain and under enormous stress and wants John to be safe as long as he himself is incapacitated. It is the only scenario that makes sense to me. 

I'm also hoping that John knows better than to believe it! And that? I'm not so sure about...

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (August 19, 2015 3:30 am)

SusiGo wrote:

I think in this very moment John believes it or at least is very overchallenged. But I still do not trust the reconciliation scene which happens after months of possible discussions and planning. But we are running in circles with this as we do not know what happened in between and cannot be sure that we will ever know. 

 
That time jump makes me INSANE!

Might be a copy though.

There are some metas about the differences between the drives we see in 221B and the Christmas scene. Might be a mistake of the prop department but this would be very sloppy.

I really am not sure if there is a plan or if we are to take it all at face value. But in spite of inconsistencies etc. before HLV I never had the feeling that the behaviour of the characters was inconsistent or that they lost credibility (within the universe of the show, not compared to reality.) The only exception is the whole forgiveness-surgery-business. This I cannot buy and I would disappointed if we were to take this at face value. 

SusiGo wrote:

There are some metas about the differences between the drives we see in 221B and the Christmas scene. Might be a mistake of the prop department but this would be very sloppy.

What does the drives mean?