RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

I've brought ice cream and frozen fruit pops...

Oh God Yes.    It's hot as 7 Hells in Atlanta.
 

Vhanja wrote:

I haven't, so I don't see the relevance. But as you seem more occupied with refering to some unknown past I don't know about, and patting each other on the back in agreement over how horrible Mary is, this is not fruitful or constructive. So I will leave it here. This thread seems to be more about "Let's be snarky over how horrible Mary is" than anything else, so I will leave it to you as it is.

I'm not referring to an unknown past. I'm referring to the fact that, on the show, she was an Assassin. 

Ice coffee? 

gently, I think it's more that we get two different faces. And of course there are nuances within those faces.
But to me the point is that I have serious doubts about her face in TEH and TSoT being real. It appears to be a complete facade. And in HLV she shows her real face. If anything of that sweet and funny and understanding Mary we saw in the first two episodes was real, why wasn't she able to show any of that in HLV, after she shot Sherlock? And no, I don't mean that she should have been sweet and funny then. But if her "I like him" in the cab in TEH was real... where did that go in HLV? And that's just one example. 

Yes, I know. 
So then the question is: Are there two 'real' faces? Is one Mary the real one? Or the other Mary? Is there only one real Mary and if so, which one is it? Of course I wouldn't say that if the Mary we see in HLV is the real one, this Mary can't have traces of the one we saw in TEH and TSoT. Thing just is: I don't see those traces. So much for nuances then. 

For all we know neither face we've seen is the "real" face and there could be a third that we haven't guessed at.

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

....

Mary, first and foremost, lied to John about her extremely bloody past-- and it's a past I don't think he would have approved of. She shot John's best friend--to cover up that past. 
.....

I still say, if this was a situation with a man doing the same to his wife, we'd start screaming abuse, and psychopath, and everything else. 
....

Have you seen Mission Impossible 3? That's exactly what the man - in this case the movie's undisputed hero - does to his fiancée!  And I'm pretty sure that the majority of viewers found the relationship incredibly sweet and romantic...

 

tonnaree wrote:

For all we know neither face we've seen is the "real" face and there could be a third that we haven't guessed at.

Oh no, tonnaree, don't make it worse.

Last edited by gently69 (July 9, 2015 1:47 pm)

tonnaree wrote:

have not seen MI3.  Could you discribe the situation in that movie a bit more?

Okay, here is the scenario (read at your own risk - it's a really nice movie, in my opinion much better than the first two, so you might want to watch it instead):

Ethan Hunt is a secret agent, expert in disguise, lots of hi-tech gadgets - a sort of U.S. James Bond. MI3 (almost) starts at a party, Ethan is getting engaged to Julia. Everybody is having a good time, till Ethan is called away because a trainee of his (he's no longer a field agent but now an instructor) has been captured. So he tells Julia, who thinks that he works for the Virginia Department of Transportation, that he needs to go to a conference he had forgotten about. Instead he frees the captured agent, but Keri doesn't survive.

Ethan (and his team) are pissed off and want to catch Owen Davian, the criminal mastermind behind Keri's capture and death, which is the second big adventure (they catch him in the Vatican!). Unfortuanately Davian doesn't stay caught and now he wants revenge. Which he gets by kidnapping Ethan's now wife - sorry, don't remember when exactly he married her - probably before heading off for Rome.

So Ethan now needs to save his wife, which leads to an adventure in Shanghai that ends with him in Davian's hands. Where he frees himself, tracks down his wife, frees her, spends some time "dead" which gives Julia the chance to shoot a few bad guys before resurrecting him - and I really, really love the moment when Ethan wakes up, sees the battle field, asks "You did that?" and gives a respectful nod when Julia confirms.

Reading it like this does not do the movie justice at all, but not at all. MI3 is one of the better - no, one of the best - action movies around, it just never stops and hardly ever slows down - there's no lengths at all. There's a fabulous villain, quite a bit of mystery (there's a bad guy on the inside - but who?) - I can't think of a single thing wrong with this movie. Actually, that's what I'll watch tonight...

Sorry Kitty. But I can't see that as a totally accurate comparasion.  Ethan does keep his entire life as a spy a secret from his wife but it's made clear he's on the side of the "good guys."   We have no absolute evidence one way or another for Mary's past.  Also, and to me the most important difference, Ethan did not try to kill or injure his wife's best friend.  The one person he knows it would devestate her to lose.