Or the cabbie. He didn't kill anyone himself, either.
So is he the same as Magnusson? Or better? Worse?
Did Moriarty kill anyone himself? Errr... I need some sleep. This is confusing me.

Now I know. Sherlock shot Magnusson. John shot the cabbie.
So they both are VERY bad.
Mary only "almost" shot Sherlock. She's good. 

Last edited by Mattlocked (June 19, 2015 10:40 pm)

Mattlocked wrote:

Now I know. Sherlock shot Magnusson. John shot the cabbie.
So they both are VERY bad.
Mary only "almost" shot Sherlock. She's good.

I don't understand why you still go on about who is "good" or "bad"? 

Judging how Magnussen twists the truth about lady smalwood's husband,  we can assume he's not entirely trustworthy when he teases Holmes And Watson about Mary's past.
But anyway , I actually have no problem with Mary having  a past as an assasin ...And John loving a former assasin. . He takes her as she is, loves her because she is what she is.
When she says "when you'll read the flash drive, you won't love me anymore And I don't want to see that happen" : To me,  it's  a beautiful love confession, just as the "problems of you past are you business,  problems of your future are my privilege"

I think maybe being an assassin and killing people over time and maybe many times must have some kind of effect on a human beings character, you must have to become quite cold and detached and end up quite jaded.
Was it disenchanted ? Sherlock deduced.If that kind of work hadn't affected her character..in a way that is worse.

The paradox between some of the worst people in history and their pleasant family lives has always been fascinating and subject to many books and tv shows etc.
It obviously is possible to be both but one persona does not exuse the other.
What John knows and loves is just one part of Mary.He didn't even want to know the others.
Which is understandable considering the baby but not very clever or realistic or safe for the future.
Brilliant for us of course though.

It's quite impressive how much people have gathered about Mary from the show. "Some of the worst people in history", even. I'm starting to wonder if we have watched two different shows.

@ Vhanja .Well out of context but amusing.That is the movie trope joke they are making is it not , that the nice polite pretty person next door turned out to be an assasin hitman serial killer whatever.It is funny but for the joke to work, they have to be both.

@Nature. If he did he would have read the memory stick , he believed what Mary said, and chose to continue loving what he knew and continue not knowing what he doesn't.

Last edited by lil (June 20, 2015 12:17 am)

About Magnussen's judgment of Mary: the only other case we really know much about is the Smallwood one.  In that case, it seems that Lord Smallwood possibly wasn't terribly guilty - he made a mistake about the girl's age.  Magnussen wasn't wrong, but his information put the person in a bad light and he knew it.  So his reaction to his mind palace information on Mary doesn't really tell us a lot.  We know she's an assassin (how much worse could it be?), but Magnussen's interest in the information is about the power it gives him. 

Sherlock's judgment of Mary is interesting, because I can never get that comment about the Camden garrotter out of my head.  He really does have a different moral view to most people (although he is highly moral, I believe).  So it makes me wonder what good Mary has done to outweigh the bad in Sherlock's eyes.   We don't hear about her giving to charity so I think it's one of two things: her love for John and what she's done for him, or her work - her targets "deserved to die".  Or both.   There's that line "that's why there are people like me", which implies that her assassinations were for the greater good.   (For me, that's the aspect that could be redeeming about Mary, but they will have to make that explicit, I think, rather than hinted at).

As for John's view, I've found it curious how much he accepts not knowing about Sherlock.  That's different, because I think he does believe that Sherlock is good and trusts him.  I don't quite understand him not wanting to know what's on the memory stick, but he doesn't (as far as we know!).   Maybe that part literally hadn't been written yet, and a revelation is being saved for S4.   Anyway, whatever it is, it seems to be a case of John trusting Sherlock.  If Sherlock wants John and Mary to be together (and is happy to leave them alone together) then he must believe that Mary is not a danger to John, and not evil.  (I don't believe Sherlock would encourage John to be with a Moriarty-like character, even though I'm kind of hoping to see Mary turn into one!). 

Liberty wrote:

... If Sherlock wants John and Mary to be together (and is happy to leave them alone together) then he must believe that Mary is not a danger to John, and not evil.  (I don't believe Sherlock would encourage John to be with a Moriarty-like character, even though I'm kind of hoping to see Mary turn into one!). 

 
I'm not sure if Sherlock really thinks Mary is not a danger to John and not evil.
She said she would do anything so she won't lose John, so I cannot get the idea out of my head, that Sherlock knows that Mary is dangerous, but not a danger for John as long as he stays with her.
But this is also something they (hopefully) will explain in S4....

I think that's possible (that Sherlock thinks Mary is a danger to John unless they are together), and it might be expanded on in S4.  But as it stands, it looks like Sherlock chooses eliminating himself (by killing Magnussen) over eliminating Mary (by leaving Magnussen alive).    I do feel that if he really believed Mary would be a danger to John if they split up, although he might be willing to put John temporarily at risk if needed, he would not go off to almost certain death and leave John unprotected, without so much as a warning.   That will need a lot of explaining if they go down that route. 

Mary says that John finding out the truth "would break him" and that she would lose him forever, and that there's nothing she wouldn't do to stop that happening.  I don't actually see that as a death threat to John (it could be to Sherlock).   She doesn't want him broken OR lost to her - it does sound almost protective of John, rather than threatening.  As it turns out, she's wrong, because the truth doesn't do either of those things (she isn't the best judge of character).   But I don't think she ever meant "I'll kill him if he tries to leave me".

As for the future, I don't think we really know what Mary might do if, say, John left her for somebody else.   Would she kill him, kill the other woman, sew prawns into his curtain hems, or just be heartbroken but deal with it?  I feel that I can't work her out.   But Sherlock does seem to believe John is safe with her.