From Liberty - "What other woman?  (Genuine question - I just can't think).  Irene was threatening international security, and Eurus was a threat to the world in general, but neither wanted Sherlock dead.   And I can't think of another woman who fits the bill at the moment!"

Regarding Eurus, just wanted to point out that in the scene where they show her as a girl drawing pictures right before she sets the house on fire, we are clearly shown where she has drawn several disturbing things about Sherlock.  Including a headstone with his  name on it and RIP.  Yes, she was a danger to everyone, but she was shown to be focusing on Sherlock.

Yeah, really!  At least she has her family to come visit her now, including Sherlock.  She can never be released, though; she's too big a danger to everyone anywhere but Sherrinford.
 

Liberty wrote:

Personally, I don't feel I need John to have the same reaction to Mary's death as Sherlock's "death".   Two very different situations, two different relationships, etc.   There isn't just one way for grief to be expressed.  And John's reactions continue to be different: after Sherlock's death he's devastated, but calm enough to give that moving little speech at Sherlock's grave.  After Mary's death he completely loses the plot, becomes angry and violent, rejects the people closest to him (Sherlock and Rosie) while clinging to Mary's "ghost" and is generally heading to destruction (hence Mary telling Sherlock he needs to save him).    It's a different and more extreme reaction all round, and the more extreme, animal grief at the point of Mary's death fits with that. 

I agree. And I'm moved / devastated by both of John's grieving scenes.


To the question, if we have been shwon/told all about Mary's "bad" stuff she has done: Good question and I'm not sure yet, although I tend to believe, we are suppoed to know about thw whole thing now.

I also have two explanations/thoughts about why Mary said John wouldn't love her anymore if he found out. One has been explained more or less by others in this thread. The other one is a completely fresh ides that came to my mind while reading through all your posts.But it is late now and to make my thought more valid the best thing would be to rewatch certain scenes.
Feel free to remember me if I should forget to share my thoughts.

Liberty wrote:

Another alternative that I don't think I mentioned but had in the back of my mind, is that they'd originally been planning something a little different than the TST story we saw, and there really was something worse at some point, but that they later changed it.    There's quite a gap between S3 and S4, so it's possible. 

Yes, thst is likely I think. That would also explain the inconsistency in Mary's character and the sudden absence of ambiguity in other parts of the show.

I think one thing that is clear, is that we know what AGRA is, and that whatever she'd done that was bad was part of her AGRA work.  So that does answer the questions, of what Magnussen found out about her, going "freelance", even why Mycroft would know if she was safe or not, etc.  There aren't really any loose ends. 

Do we know that the things she did that was bad was the AGRA work? How can that be freelance work if she was hired by the government? 

I am still in the camp of thinking that whatever she did that was "bad", we don't know it yet. I can't see how Mary would think that if John knew that she had been hired by the government to go on a mission to save hostages, he would stop loving her. (That is probably not far from some of the stuff John has done himself, in Afghanistan, come to think of it).

Yes, AGRA were freelance.  Or mercenary.  And yes, I think I lot of people would disapprove of that.  They appeared to be a group of people with particular skills who offered their services - and perhaps sometimes it was more convenient and less traceable for the government to use an outside group - until it went wrong.   Perhaps they had been used by other governments and agencies (I tend to think not, just because of the danger of information being shared, but it's certainly possible - and presumably they would have moved on to someone else if the British government had stopped hiring them. 

Anyway, when they have that awful showdown in 221B, from what Sherlock says, she could still be a CIA agent, for instance, rather than a mercenary.   That might be the new information on the AGRA stick that Mary is worried about.   (But it could also just be that she thinks he'll leave her anyway.    She has already said that.   She just doesn't want to watch him reading the information).

If the clue that she's done something else terrible is the "you won't love me" conversation, then it has to be something on the AGRA stick, doesn't it?  And I presume what's on that stick is just about AGRA.   They had all agreed to keep copies and to not betray each other. 

Actually, what John is really bothered about in the end, is that she lied about her name and the initials.   Which is a bit unfair, I think, because she gave him the information and he chose not to look at it! 

For me, TFP clearly finished off everything.

I just hope that 10 years down the line, we meet back up with the guys, continuing their detective consultancy...

tonnaree wrote:

I still remember when Steven and Mark told us that they had plotted out S4 AND S5 at the same time.

They did, didn't they? I had it in the back of my mind the whole time!

I'm glad they made the decision to condense it into one series.  Just in case we don't get S5.