And yet, if it had truly been her intent to kill him, she would have aimed at his head or his heart, and then she would have left him to die.  She is a crack shot, so she would not have missed if she had.
 

Last edited by kgreen20 (October 8, 2016 12:45 am)

Liberty wrote:

Do you meant there is an ongoing theme of Sherlock dying?  I agree, it has been there right from ASIP, and I'd be surprised if it didn't come up again in S4 (especially with the dying, lying detective!). 

No, in this case I was referring to the fact that in the case of the shooting alone death or dying is mentioned twelve times. It is meant to stay in our memory. As are the images of Sherlock crying with pain, writhing on the floor, dragging himself up the stairs. This is what one remembers, at least I do. And we are not meant to forget that. 

As for the shot: we have been over this again and again. If she had shot him in the head, John would have gone immediately after the killer because it would have been obvious that Sherlock was dead. Shooting him in the chest meant John was going to follow his doctor instinct and try to save Sherlock's life. Mary was buying herself time to escape. I do not think she really cared if he died later as long as he stayed alive long enough to distract John. 

But there is no proof that she called the ambulance except what Sherlock says. We do not see her calling, he could not see or hear her calling, John is not told an ambulance had been called before. There is only the word of a man who probably was unconscious even before he hit the floor.

Sherlock tried to redeem Mary at that point in order to keep John (and himself probably) safe. He offered her an explanation on a silver tray. And she did not even once confirm that this is what happened. We have only Sherlock's word for it. 

The longer I think about this whole thing, the more it makes me long for EMP. 

In the HLV video on TJLC Explained there is an interesting comparison between the real scene and Sherlock's later retelling of it. And there you can see a clear difference in Magnussen bowing down and to his left where the phone is lying. I will have to check this again but is definitely not the same movement. What we see in the scene and what Sherlock thinks he has perceived is not identical. 

Yes, I think I read a meta about that, and it's a possibility.  I do think it looks like he's trying to do something with his phone (call the police? Record the conversation?), although it's not clear if it's a clue that he phoned, or just flagging up the presence of the phone for us.  But for this scenario to work, it would mean that Magnussen called the ambulance, pretended to have been knocked out, then did not say that he'd called the ambulance because he predicted that Sherlock would invent the ambulance story to falsely reassure Mary.   It also means that Sherlock knew Magnussen called the ambulance, but decided it would have been possible for Mary to do so too, and that pretending that she had would be safer.  It means that either John isn't in on it and falls for the ambulance scenario because of Magnussen's acting, or that John IS in on it, and so knows Magnussen was acting and fakes suprise through Sherlock's story.  And that Mary somehow falls for this.  

Although the obvious scenario (that Mary called and Sherlock deduced that) is a bit of a stretch, it's a simpler explanation.   Sherlock clearly doesn't think of Mary as a risk later (either for the rest of HLV or in TAB, which shows his subconscious view of her.  She doesn't seem to be a threat to them, and in fact, Sherlock ends up protecting her). 

In a way, they've left it open, because we never do get Mary's point of view here.  But to hinge the already farfetched ambulance story on whether or not Magnussen was reaching for the phone, makes it kind of silly.  And in the end, it doesn't really matter.  It's a fact that she shot Sherlock and he almost died, but didn't.  Sherlock could have used that fact either way - to prove that Mary meant to kill him, or to prove that she meant him to survive. 

I am SO happy that they appear to be giving us some background on Mary in S4, which will hopefully be very revealing, but I hope they do it well. 

Last edited by Liberty (October 9, 2016 8:26 am)

Yes.  Neither story really adds up properly, and I do think S4 will let us know for sure.   Even if they don't go over this part again (and I kind of hope they don't, because I've never liked the fact that it hinges on those two things - Sherlock's almost-death and ambulance timing.  I've said from the beginning that it doesn't really make sense to assume that Mary didn't mean to kill, when she virtually did kill him - but then the rest doesn't make sense otherwise), at least I hope we'll understand more about Mary's intentions and motivations.  She's still very much a mystery.

Hmmm.  I don't think Mary is a nasty person at all.  Quite the contrary.  I do think she's a dangerous person, as Sherlock is, and apparently (from both CAM's comments on her and Sherlock's deduction) she has "gone rogue" as an intelligence agent and maybe done some things on her own similar to what Sherlock eventually does.  However, it's clear she loves John deeply.  She may have lied about her name and her past, but that part was not a lie. In CAM's office, she does not take the obvious solution of killing both Sherlock and CAM and sneaking out, because she knows John is in the office and doesn't want him becoming a suspect.  Instead, she puts herself in serious danger by leaving both CAM and Sherlock alive and in possesion of her secret.  In the abandoned house, Sherlock asks her, "Why didn't you come to me in the first place?"  Mary's reply is, "Because John can never know I lied to him.  It would break him, and I would lose him forever, and I will never let that happen. . . .  Sherlock?  Please understand, there is nothing I would not do to stop that happening."  (Except apparently there is.)  In the apartment, "If you love me, don't read it in front of me. . . .   Because you won't love me when you've finished, and I don't want to see that happen."  Technically, she says she doesn't want John to stop loving her.  Why not?  Because she loves him.  They are estranged for months, but she doesn't leave.  When they have it out at Sherlock's parents' house, she is completely bowled over by the grace he shows her.  "You don't even know my name."  "Is Mary Watson good enough for you?"  "Yes.  Oh my God, yes!"  "Then it's good enough for me."  Mary already loved John.  Now, with the truth, she is free to be his full friend and partner and lover and wife, as well as being free to join in the fun with him and Sherlock without their wondering how she came by her abilities.  I am really looking forward to Season 4.

Last edited by cmb711 (October 12, 2016 11:17 pm)

@cmb711: Knowing the show, I am very, very sure that there is one thing that is never going to happen: Mary joining the fun. You may laugh at me in January, but as for now I hold my conviction that his is never going to happen. 

@cmb711 I always find it interesting to learn about how you can like Mary as a "goodie". I wonder how you judge her motive for shooting Sherlock.

For me, it was a purely selfish act to keep herself happy together with John. Well, happy for her. She has seen how Sherlock’s death has affected John before and risks him going through all that grief again. What do you think of that?

Last edited by Schmiezi (October 13, 2016 11:37 am)

Oh I definitely agree with you on the whole show part.
No, I think it will be a one off and then Mary is blown away...that is my feeling.