besleybean wrote:

I agree.  Mary and Sherlock are both murderers .

Right, only with opposed motives.

Well, did Mary want Sherlock dead? I'd say yes, others surely disagree.

I meant of course that Mary shot Sherlock to keep herself save while Sherlock shot Magnussen to keep John and Mary save.

This is quite interesting regarding Sherlock's explanation that Mary did not shoot CAM because John might have become a suspect. Here is a quote from Amanda:

"The gun I used was the gun that Daniel Craigused in Skyfall. It was purely coincidental. Lee, this wonderful firearms guy, taught me to fire it, said, “You know that’s James Bond’s gun.” I was like, “Don’t say that!” I was walking around going, “I’ve got a Walther PPK.” It’s brilliant."

John's gun has been identified as a Sig Sauer P226R described here: 
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Sherlock#SIG-Sauer_P226R.

There is something like ballistics, right? Something the original Sherlock Holmes was very expert in, right? So how would anyone suspect John of shooting Magnussen if it had not been done with his gun - provided anyone knew he owned it in the first place? Even if Mary had left the gun in the office, it would still have been the wrong one AND without John's finger prints on it. 
Everyone who has ever seen a crime show or read a crime novel knows this much. So this was really not the reason Mary did not shoot Magnussen. 


 

Last edited by SusiGo (September 30, 2016 10:55 am)

Yes, but the question is why Sherlock told this ridiculous story at all. John is a soldier, he knows how to identify guns. But because of the missing months we do not know if he believed Sherlock or not. 

Remember: John is smarter than he looks. Pretty damn smart. 

Yes indeed, it is a beauty!

There's also the fact that it wouldn't have been much of a story if Mary had killed Magnussen - or it would have been a different story, at least.  

And as for John believing Sherlock, it looks like he does, I think.   He's emotional at 221B, but he doesn't seem to really question what Sherlock is saying - he seems to see it as the truth. 

Yes, it is incredibly detailed and deliberate. And more evidence for those who think the surgery explanation is improbable, to put it mildly. 
 

Next point, in no particular order ... the idea that Sherlock believed Mary was planning to kill him and was trying to disarm her.   I do think he wanted to disarm her, but I don't think he believed she would shoot him.  I think initially he is sympathetic towards her in the way he would have been sympathetic to Lady Smallwood, had it been her.  He seems more put out that she didn't come to him in the first place, and I think at that point, if he thinks of it all, he assumes her "secret" is something along the lines of Lady Smallwood's, and I'm sure he sympathises with her desire to kill Magnussen (whom he despises) even if he wants to stop her doing it.   I think it's only at the moment she shoots him that he realises he has misinterpreted. 

Now the medical explanation for the injury and whether it was likely to be surgery or not, actually doesn't matter.   The big, huge, glaring point is that Sherlock virtually died.  Which kind of makes nonsense of the whole surgery explanation.  However, all of them have access to that information ... Sherlock uses it in making his deduction about the surgery and John appears to believe it.   So somehow, in their universe, we're supposed to think that this is reasonable.   

Of course, the writer believes that this is a plot by Sherlock and John, perhaps to reasssure Mary.   However, Sherlock's surgery explanation hinges on the even more implausible idea that an ambulance would take exactly 8 minutes to arrive.   John appears to believe it, which is a huge stretch, but of course, he could be playing a long.   However, Mary appears to believe it too - or at least, it's not a huge giveaway to her that Sherlock is setting up a fake story to falsely reassure her.   And so it doesn't work - it's such a ludicrous explanation, that it's not one that Sherlock would use to deceive Mary, and it's not one that Mary would be deceived by.   The only way I can see this is that in the universe of the show, this is an explanation which makes sense to all of them (and Sherlock believes it to be true).  I'm sorry, I didn't explain that well at all, but hopefully you can see what I'm getting at. 

In other words, if you believe that John wouldn't believe the surgery explanation, then how can you believe that Mary would believe that John and Sherlock believe the ambulance explanation?
 

Last edited by Liberty (October 7, 2016 7:19 pm)